A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
Guest

Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Villiers 1F Engine ... won't start ..
Avatar
Swing42
NSW Australia
Second Gear User
Site Member
Forum Posts: 36
Member Since:
February 5, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
February 5, 2019 - 8:08 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

G'day all,

This is my first post here..

I've just bought my first Bantam,a 1956 D3 and am looking forward to the restoration.

Before I start on it however,I want to finish the restoration of a 1951 Malvern Star Autobyke.

Malvern Star was an Australian company that made mainly push bikes ,but from about 1940 to 1951 they made Autocycles (they spelt the name of these machines AUTOBYKE for some reason) ..My bike has Webb forks and a 2 speed Villiers 98cc 1F Engine ... and here's where my problem lies,the Engine won't start..We went through the engine with all new parts ... bearings ,seals etc.It has plenty of spark ( NGK B7HS plug) and compression,but apart from a 'splutter' or 4 ,it just wont run..Fuel is getting to the carburettor and flooding it,but from what I can make out,it doesn't seem to be getting to the engine as the plug doesn't appear to be wet..

Would anyone have any ideas about the problem ?

Thanks ... best regards from OZ .. Charlie .

Avatar
cocorico
Central France
Top Gear User
Site Member
Forum Posts: 3698
Member Since:
June 23, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
February 5, 2019 - 11:11 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

I've just had a problem with an oldish Peugeot scooter (seized piston) which wouldn't run after repair, with no fuel reaching the plug. I'd done all the 'normal' tests. Cleaned carb, checked fuel flow, cleaned elec connections and even replaced the reed valve. I got as far as ordering new seals, though pretty sure it wasn't them. I then decided to lift the cylinder again and found that the new base gasket had somehow rotated 90deg on the first reassembly, so obstructing the intake port. Turned it back, reassembled and voila, runs like a dream again. Now I just have all the bodywork to put back! Hope that helps.

Avatar
bantammad
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 300
Member Since:
December 12, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
February 5, 2019 - 4:12 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi charlie  I have just rebuilt a 1f with new conrod kit bearings etc the thing is that they need to be spot on if the crank case is air tight good spark fuel etc they go as a rule what i have come across is timing slip the fly wheel turns on the crank shaft when flogging up the fly wheel nut check that the mark on the crank is at 12 o clock points just breaking and the fly wheel mark is inline with the mark on the back plate most important the crank taper and cone must be clean and dry or it will slip when floggin up the fly wheel nut clean both parts i use carb cleaner most effective it drys both mating parts oh been doing for engines around 58 year time served advice is free hope it helps you  g.day mate  best regards LES    bantamad  from England

Avatar
Mags 1
Northamptonshire.
Top Gear User
Site Member
Forum Posts: 2329
Member Since:
August 24, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
February 5, 2019 - 4:59 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Try turning engine over with your hand over the carb intake, a magneto D7 I'm working on has a fat blue spark and compression too, but like yours plug was dry, no fuel, no start....hold tickler down until fuel comes out, should be enough there then, also try some fuel into plug hole, about a thimble full should be enough.

Four now on the road and at least several in bits.

Avatar
Swing42
NSW Australia
Second Gear User
Site Member
Forum Posts: 36
Member Since:
February 5, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
February 8, 2019 - 7:47 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

It lives!

Thanks to the members who put in their two bobs worth re the Villiers 1F ..

As suggested by Cocorico,I lifted the barrel and checked whether the base gasket was incorrectly fitted ... all was good there.

Bantammad Les was on the money however... the timing was out ,as the flywheel had slipped during the tightening process... when all the marks lined up,the piston was about 2/3rd of the way down the barrel.. I set it all up and tried for a start only to find that it had slipped again.Second try with with crank taper cleaned with acetone and a little bit of extra muscle on the tightening spanner and away she went.. first kick .

Ahhhh we do love a win !

Thanks again friends,your input was much appreciated ..

Avatar
JackE
Buxton, Derbyshire
Second Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 30
Member Since:
April 16, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
April 25, 2020 - 8:53 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Glad you got the Villiers going, Swing42!  But for future reference, here's a tip I got from a marine engineer who told me this was in the official Evinrude works manual for their big multi-cylinder two-stroke outboards, and he'd been using it for years with complete success.

Like your 1F, these Evinrudes have a flywheel mag fitted onto a plain taper, with no key-way - and they also tend to slip when you tighten the nut after setting the timing.  So what Evinrude tell their mechanics to do is this:

1. Use a solvent - as you did - to make sure that both flywheel and crankshaft tapers are completely grease free;
2. Wipe a very - very - thin smear of fine grinding paste on the middle section of the taper on the shaft, but keep it clear of the ends;
(basically, my mate said "put a thin smear on, then wipe most of it off;  if there's enough left that you can see it, that's enough!)
3. Push the flywheel onto the shaft, supporting it so that the tapers don't touch until the flywheel is well onto the shaft - the idea being to keep the grinding paste only on the middle section of the taper;
4. Push the flywheel home, with the position set to give correct timing, and do up the nut fingertight;
5. Get a tubular drift with a big enough hole in it to give plenty of clearance over the nut, and long enough to cover the shaft (my mate used an old plumbing union made of brass);
6. Place the drift in position over the shaft, and give it a sharp smack - not a heavy blow - with a rather light hammer, not a heavy one.

What happens then is that all the grains of carbide grip into the metal of the tapers, and hold them in position while you do up the nut.  Once the flywheel and shaft are pinned together by the nut, the grains aren't going anywhere.  I asked him if he'd ever known any of the grinding paste to escape into the engine, and he said "Never - not even on racing engines which get thrashed."

His brother used the same technique on the magneto timing pinion of his B.31 with complete success - and spared his wife 20 minutes of stiffing and blinding!

Re. the 'sharp smack, not heavy blow' - it's like this;  clap your hands together smartly - then punch the palm of one hand with your fist.  When you hit the drift, the impact should be like the clap, and not like the punch - and it's much easier to achieve with a light hammer than a heavy one.  Bear in mind that all the grinding paste has to do is to stop the flywheel moving until the nut starts locking the two tapers together, and it doesn't take much pressure on those little grains to get that much grip.

HTH, and best regards,

Jack

Avatar
Number6
Lincolnshire
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 359
Member Since:
January 18, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
April 26, 2020 - 7:26 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/imagex/misc/like-button2.jpg

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 223

Currently Online:
15 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

cocorico: 3698

Cornish Rooster: 3290

bart: 3113

Blue Heeler: 2840

Sprung Chicken: 2642

David Dale: 2453

Mags 1: 2329

Piquet: 2294

Munchkin: 2199

nickjaxe: 2070

Newest Members:

_3008

Forum Stats:

Groups: 9

Forums: 48

Topics: 12556

Posts: 109640

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1477

Members: 2245

Moderators: 0

Admins: 4

Administrators: Bantam-Super, JMD, Springs, Stoo63