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Cub Cam Markings
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Stoo63
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March 27, 2020 - 10:35 am
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This is becoming a bit of a daily quiz question: " Decipher the numbers"

Okay, so......   I've been rebuilding a barn find '59 Cub. All good so far. Rebuilt engine - had to replace incorrect inner primary case, so someone has obviously been "tinkering" with it previously but not for a long time. The rest of it seems  original. I've got it back in the frame and have a nice spark and a wet plug. It fires but won't "catch" and run. Adjusted timing(dizzy) and valves but no improvement. So I took the engine out to double-check that I hadn't misaligned the cam pinion when refittiing( I was SURE I hadn't) and sure enough, when I opened it up the pinion was correctly aligned. However, looking a the cam pinion it had the numbers 0015 stamped on it and scratched out and numbers -0015 stamped quite clearly, obviously from the factory. What do they mean? 

I then double-checked the dizzy. Lucas 40699B. Now Lucas 40699 was the new dizzy replacing the 40529A. But what do the "A"and the "B" mean and are they relevant to my woes? I've trawled through endless old Lucas documents and am still as much in the dark as their headlamps on a cold winter's night!

Pics below of cam stampings. Any thoughts  welcome, gents. Cheers, Stewart.

WEECopy-of-20200325_203027-WEEE.jpgCopy-of-20200325_203012-wee.jpg

'52 D1 direct lighting plunger; '58 Square Four (project); '55 D3 Battery; '59 D1 direct lighting plunger;  '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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sunny
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March 27, 2020 - 11:04 am
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hi  Stewart    have  you  checked  the  bob waits   in the distributar         not  slopy   are  thay      or  spring  missing   i  just have  truble  thinkin  rite now

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Stoo63
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March 27, 2020 - 11:06 am
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Springs are all good, Keith. Dizzy looks untampered with. Just gave it a good clean and new condenser. 

'52 D1 direct lighting plunger; '58 Square Four (project); '55 D3 Battery; '59 D1 direct lighting plunger;  '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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mikef
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March 27, 2020 - 11:19 am
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I don't now the tiger cub but just some thoughts.
Timing seems to be a hot contender in the failure to start syndrome and as the parts types are a bit suspect, maybe some basic checks first.
Obviously the valves should both be closed as the piston rises on the compression stroke and also the points should just start to open a bit before top dead centre to fire. I don't know what the ignition timing should be but if you set the ignition timing so that the piston was about 1/16" when the points started to open that should get it to run.
I remember from the old car tinkering days when refitting a distributor it was easy to get the timing 180 degrees out if you didn't check to see that the piston was on it's firing stroke.
Probably saying what you already know but just might help.
Mike.

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March 27, 2020 - 1:16 pm
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Stoo63 said
This is becoming a bit of a daily quiz question: " Decipher the numbers"
 However, looking a the cam pinion it had the numbers 0015 stamped on it and scratched out and numbers -0015 stamped quite clearly, obviously from the factory. What do they mean? 

Pics below of cam stampings. Any thoughts  welcome, gents. Cheers, Stewart.

WEECopy-of-20200325_203027-WEEE.jpgCopy-of-20200325_203012-wee.jpg  

I may be wrong Stewart, but I thought those cam-wheel markings were factory tolerances re teeth backlash clearances, as per individual batches machined.....crank and cam-wheel gears?

I bet Princeton Uni would know. Been following their students work on various Tiger Cub models over the years. I wish they`d been five lasses in my City&Guilds class!

Funny how the Americans have often got more data and info than us in Blighty on some Brit bikes, just shows how revered British bikes still are over there...the ones that don`t end up back here for freddythefatfrog ebay seller et al.

Did someone post the workshop manual details for you the other day? Anyway, here they are,  again?...** Please log in to view **

I will also need to swot up on what`s what, before I sort through my `58,`60  & `66 Cubs and boxes of spares. I`m a bit rusty on Cubs at the moment.

Blue

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Stoo63
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March 29, 2020 - 1:48 pm
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Sooo,....... searching through my new Cub Bible 🙂 , I discover, tucked away in the extra online appendices, that the tappet adjustment for the standard cam is listed as 0.015 and the "R" race cam is 0.020. Therefore, I'm making a leap of faith that this "mystery" marking is telling me is that it's a stock, standard cam and all is fine there. HOWEVER... the new Bible also lists the 17mm Zenith17MX with a 78 main jet/ 50 pilot jet and 200/65 needle jet as opposed to the 3/4" Amal 332, I've got. BUT in the main body of the book it says that the Zenith didn't appear til 1000 bikes later than mine and the Amal is correct!?!? Conflicting data!! Oh, Cruel World!! Ah, well...plenty time on my hands and the lump is out the frame and on the bench now, so might as well dismantle the thing and Double-double-check everything(again) .......

'52 D1 direct lighting plunger; '58 Square Four (project); '55 D3 Battery; '59 D1 direct lighting plunger;  '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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sunny
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March 29, 2020 - 2:39 pm
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 hi Stewart   me little  book  says       valve  timing   (  set  with  .015  thu   clearance   )    30 dg , 50 dg  ,    55dg ,  25dg dg    clearance   .010  thuw   COLD    try  find   it in  your  book   please       to   check    mine

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Stoo63
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March 30, 2020 - 8:32 am
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Hi Keith, yes those figures tally up. Have a look on Page 5 of this old workshop manual ** Please log in to view **

Stewart

'52 D1 direct lighting plunger; '58 Square Four (project); '55 D3 Battery; '59 D1 direct lighting plunger;  '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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Ringting
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March 31, 2020 - 9:06 pm
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Hi Stoo. As a rough guide for valve timing, turn the engine over till the valves are on the rock, ie, inlet opening, exhaust closing and both open around the same amount. Just rock the crank back and forth while observing the rockers. With the valves on the rock the piston should be at tdc.

If it is then valve timing is close enough to run.

You can also check that it's not sparking in this position. You should need to turn the crank one revolution before the points open. Agreed about 1/16" btdc should be close enough to get it going.

Good luck, Alan.

D1, D14/4, Guzzi LeMans, Triumph Trident 900, Maserati 160 t4. Mk1 Mini Traveller, Berkeley T60.

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March 31, 2020 - 9:55 pm
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I leave the dizzy slightly loose once I`ve got her near enough, and then turn it to set by ear once she`s running. When she`s warmed up and carb`s set, then throttle response usually shows if timing`s too out. I wouldn`t use this approach on anything higher than the 7:1 compression ratio Cubs. 

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Stoo63
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March 31, 2020 - 10:04 pm
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Cheers, Alan. Took the head off, so I'll mark TDC exactly. Needless to say there was nowt wrong with the barrel studs when i removed them and now one is stiff as a B%^(*&d and was bringing the stud out with it. Tight as..... I bent one set of "quality" mole grips trying to separate them, so as a treat to myself, I shelled out on ** Please log in to view ** who don't take any prisoners. It's always such a treat to handle proper tools. How many times do we regret false economies.....

Stripping the carb and cleaning it to within an inch of it's life , while watching the Odessa File. Job's a good 'un 🙂

Cheers

Stewart

'52 D1 direct lighting plunger; '58 Square Four (project); '55 D3 Battery; '59 D1 direct lighting plunger;  '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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March 31, 2020 - 11:23 pm
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Stanley, should be good, I need a new pair of molies.

Have you tried one of these, see link below, although you`d need a smaller version for Cub and Bantam studs, as the larger dia ones tend to mullah-up thinner studs...leaving big knurled imprint on the stud, probably weakening said stud? I used this type kit with no problems for removing engine studs on around a dozen Throbbin` Robin 3-leggers, being the county`s main mechanic/tuner for a few years...and used the tool on big Guzzi Vees and others too.

You can use a torque wrench with them too. 

** Please log in to view **

I`ve not tried this bit of kit below, looks like a grippier take on a standard drill chuck, chuck 🙂

** Please log in to view **

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Stoo63
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March 31, 2020 - 11:35 pm
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Oh, stop it , Blue. I'm bad enough as it is.... Finger hovering over Buy It Now button. Ordered a ratchet tap wrench today as well. Why???? I don't really need one but just looked so tempting. $$$$$$$

Didn't know you were a Robin man. I've got a soft spot for a 3-wheeler. Would sell my soul for a Bond Bug or a Berkeley..... Now where did I put that chequebook.......

Cheers

Stoo

EDIT: Honestly, I was closing the page with the stud extractor....and then my finger just tapped on BIN. Delivered this Friday too. Mmmm lots of new toys to play with 🙂

'52 D1 direct lighting plunger; '58 Square Four (project); '55 D3 Battery; '59 D1 direct lighting plunger;  '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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Pootle
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April 1, 2020 - 9:18 am
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In my youth I got through several 3 wheelers, a Berkeley T60, frighteningly low, even in traffic then, a AC Petite ( horrendous!)and a Nobel, later we had a Robin estate, I think many of the detractors never had one, a very practical economical vehicle as long it was driven sensibly, that said it would do 70-75 happily on dual carriageways. Sorry, gone of topic!

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Stoo63
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April 1, 2020 - 9:21 am
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Oh, 3-wheelers are never off-topic, Pootle 🙂 We're just blethering anyway..... Sounds like an interesting collection of motors.

'52 D1 direct lighting plunger; '58 Square Four (project); '55 D3 Battery; '59 D1 direct lighting plunger;  '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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cocorico
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April 1, 2020 - 9:30 am
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Ahh, nostalgia - not what it used to be. The only 3 wheeler I've had was a Jawa 350 / Velorex combo, which was a hoot. A friend had a Trojan 200, another 'oddity'.

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April 2, 2020 - 1:47 am
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I quite got into placcy pigs Stoo. Most mechanics I knew gave them a wide berth. One chap(played cricket for Leicestershire) brought me his pride & joy 120,000 mile Robin and the chassis was so rotten it wasn`t worth saving. Complete strip-down, assembled everything back onto galv chassis. New steering, kingpin(still got the reamers), you name it. Completely rebuilt the motor. Cost a packet but he was well chuffed. Loaned him a Rialto while doing his overhaul, which he ran into the back of a Scimitar with at Oakham railway crossing. Nice Ins claim and the car back, got my mate Eddie the Fish, a renowned artist/sculptor(Billingsgate/Harrods/BBC etc), to fibreglass and airbrush over, lovely job.

When I moved, I sold 8 x 850cc engines to a chap starting up a Racing School down south. Also Mallory Park had a Delboy-inspired  yellow Robin with a bowl fixed to the roof and a football in it, to teach smooth race-craft to aspiring racing drivers. I sold them a written-off V4 Honda a Coventry customer had traded in, not sure exactly why they wanted that, only a basic model.

Owned many 3-leggers, but also had a Delboy-inspired yellow Robin estate, R-plate and during nightclub chucking-out time in the wee hours in Nottm, it`d totally embarrass hot hatches loaded with revelers between the lights up to 40mph. It was also good for a genuine 100mph out of town, which anyone who was brave enough to sit in the passenger seat or follow me, would confirm. 

Many other stories, but as you mentioned the Bond Bug Stoo, which I too would love, much nicer car...I saw a real beauty, very special build, in a workshop on an Industrial Estate(late `80s?), depressed ex-mining area Notts, couldn`t miss the joint, approached from a higher elevation, Robin bonnet fixed right up on a telegraph pole with 3-wheeler dealer centre painted on it, and there further up on the right was a yard with dozens of piggies neatly lined up, all different colours like jelly beans. I parked up, stuck my head in the workshop to see the stunning Bond Bug, but nobody was to be seen. Found a portacabin, rattled on the door and was ushered into a lounge area where everyone was watching Home & Away. I had to wait until the "gripping" episode had fished, sitting there very bemused...someone had done a runner to Western Australia, was in the plot line. Espisode over, everyone(real nice bunch of folk), back to the workshop. I was shown around the BB and it`s value was high back then, bought the Robin spares I`d called in for and off I toddled. 

I must look those other 3-wheelers up Pootle. We have a 3-wheeler museum in Lincs I believe, not been yet. My Dad picked my Mum up in a Jap-powered Morgan 3-wheeler when he first took her out. Seen them race at Cadwell. Quite fancied Guzzi V-twin 3-wheeler.

Nearest I got to a motorpike and sidecarp Bob, was trying out an A10 with Bullet sidecar, Greetham Garage 1980, owner was on the rigs so his bro took me for a spin in it. I think he wants about £280 for it he said. Mmm, why is the canopy damaged, I asked. Oh coming back from the pub one night, I needed to puke up quick, so put my fist through it. I chuckled and said, get him to ring me when he gets back. It never happened for some reason.

There endeth my Corona lay-off tales for today

Blue

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Stoo63
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April 2, 2020 - 1:40 pm
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Got my eye on this craziness at the moment....

Annotation-2020-04-02-133814.png

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'52 D1 direct lighting plunger; '58 Square Four (project); '55 D3 Battery; '59 D1 direct lighting plunger;  '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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sunny
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April 2, 2020 - 1:51 pm
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so  rare   infact     ,.,.  mite  still   belong   to  the  NHS

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Pootle
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April 2, 2020 - 2:00 pm
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When we had the first child on the way I was determined to keep motorcycling so attached a double adult sidecar to the A65 I had at the time, it burnt a valve out on the way back from France with a 6 month old baby on board, managed to limp home on one cylinder! Later after No. 2 arrived I got a Moto Guzzi G5 and arttached a watsonian side by side sidecar with a large boot and camped across Europe with the inevitable mishaps, more nostalgic ramblings!

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