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1967 Ducati Cadet 4
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BonesCDI
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February 4, 2015 - 2:41 pm
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After a long hiatus I am back into the Ducati. The bike was obtained modified from original. The foot pegs had been cut off, a Suzuki front end grafted on and I think the previous owner ran out of steam with the project.

I have ditched the original Suzuki front end and have modified RM80 forks by cutting 100mm off the length, and manufactured new triple clamps from billet aluminium. The fork legs were drilled out to take the bigger axle.

The engine was in reasonable condition, so pulled it down, vapour blasted it, however piston rings are no longer available............so I machined a new set of compression and oil scraper rings.

rear springs weren't too bad and just needed a cleanup.

Have done the wiring loom and am getting close to engine startup, then it will be time to pull it down and paint.

To my knowledge these bikes were only sold in America, did the go to the UK or the continent?

Bones 

 

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Running and project bikes from 1912 -2005..........She hasn't said stop yet.........

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cocorico
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February 4, 2015 - 4:11 pm
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Nice looking bike - I love the engine.

I'm pretty sure there is a company - in Holland maybe? - that can supply piston rings for just about anything. I'll check through my 'records'.

Found it (I think), have a look here ** Please log in to view ** (even though you've made your own) tip-my-hat

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colk2004
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February 4, 2015 - 6:54 pm
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When you've done, just bag it up and post it to York, UK. Please. 

Looking mighty good that is.

 

Cheers Col

BSA Bantam D10 so so near, Reliant Scimitar GTE SE6a - wiring in bits. FB Falcon 87 seat and wiring to do - still. MZ125 wiring left to do, Royal Enfield Classic love it, campervan nearly done to tow some of the above!

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HowD1
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February 4, 2015 - 11:09 pm
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...impressive stuff Bones.

Hands up all of you out there that make your own rings.....ok, one.....er.....any one else, anywhere?

bow

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Mags 1
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February 5, 2015 - 12:01 am
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Well, not personally, but - I downloaded and printed off a "DIY" type method of making your own piston rings many years ago from the 'net.

All you needed was a short length of cast iron guttering down pipe and a lathe of course. (Plastic will NOT do!)

Reading through, it appeared that they almost made themselves, well, almost!

Four now on the road and at least several in bits.

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HowD1
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February 5, 2015 - 10:23 am
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Mags - I can hear in my head the dreaded "snick" of that lovingly made special oil scraper ring snapping, as beads of sweat blur your vision, after weeks of scouring skips for a suitable drainpipe and gallons of midnight oil burnt slaving over a hot Myford.

"snick".

I know what that sounds like. In my youth it was usually followed by expletives and much spanner (and occasionally piston) flinging round the shed*. It never made me feel better beyond that instant, and once I'd shelled out for another set of rings I'd gingerly locate the new rings, one by one, over little slivers of tin can hoping I wouldn't hear the....

"snick"

AAAAARGH! It's a nightmare!

*calling my maintenance area a "shed" was a bit over-optimistic. It was a sort of corrugated tin tractor shelter, no windows or electricity. Feyther didn't like vehicles of any sort....especially motorbikes!

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cocorico
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February 5, 2015 - 11:14 am
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HowD1 said
Mags - I can hear in my head the dreaded "snick" 

Feyther didn't like vehicles of any sort....especially motorbikes!

I know that sound exactly, and I too have a mind picture of 'Feyther'. Are you from Yorkshire, btw?

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HowD1
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February 5, 2015 - 7:10 pm
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No Coco, we are all Westcountry people though my "feyther" did live for many years before WW2 in Chester and Manchester. He always signed his letters to me (hated telephone's too!) "Feyther".

Ee, 'e were a proper Luddite but a smashing chap really. Just liked the "old ways".

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BonesCDI
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February 12, 2015 - 9:59 am
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I'll tell you what's hard.

Trying to set the timing on a magneto flywheel ignition.......................When someone has riveted the flywheel on in the wrong position!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only found this out after finding the stator plate and rotor centre wrapped up in the box of the spare engine. I surmised this bike has been setup to run a total loss ignition system, and someone has tried to turn it back to normal. 

I am also having trouble kicking this thing over due to compression...............and the left leg kickstarter.

Ducati ....................making mechanics out of riders for over 50 years!

 

Bones

Running and project bikes from 1912 -2005..........She hasn't said stop yet.........

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cocorico
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February 12, 2015 - 10:12 am
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BonesCDI said

Ducati ....................making mechanics out of riders for over 50 years!

 

Bones

Know what you mean - Moto Morini are similar, and my favourite, the Kanguro, has a rather high kickstart as well - coupled with a game left knee - doh! Kicking a Bantam is dead easy.

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BonesCDI
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June 20, 2015 - 5:47 am
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Bike fired up for the first time today with the assistance of the roller starter.

A few standard adjustments to the dellorto carby and we now have a nice idle. The carby came without any of the choke components, so it's tickle the carby until it floods and go for the starter. We still have a minor fuel leak to address.

The bike "cleared it's throat" of all the oil I had in the barrel for corrosion prevention and is running clean. So the home made rings obviously work OK.

About 10 min run time with no oil leaks detected, so there is one happy Ducati owner this side of the globe.

The bike will kickstart as well, however the kickstarter needs a circlip groove cleaned out to retain the circlip for the kick pedal.

It sounds wonderful!!

There are some small jobs to complete prior to teardown. Then it will be strip the powder coat in prep for painting. This task will be allocated to my non-rent paying stepson whom is currently residing with us! He does actually do his fair share of work around here so I shouldn't complain...............Thinking about it if he didn't do his fair share of work he would be answerable to his mother!

Anyway some pic's as well,

Bones

rsz_100_0232-1.jpgrsz_1100_0233-1.jpg  

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cocorico
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June 20, 2015 - 7:46 am
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thumbs-upthumbs-upthumbs-up

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BSAdave
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June 20, 2015 - 9:12 am
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Wow that is one nice looking bike, you have done a great job bringing it back to life

I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong

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Cornish Rooster
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June 20, 2015 - 10:28 am
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Bones,

Just come across this thread, I am no Ducati expert though I have and do own some Italian bikes and I can say that I do not recognise that engine. The other strange thing is that it has what is called a "Heron Head" that is both valves are vertical and parallel, with this type of head you usually find the piston is not flat topped but has the combustion chamber shape in the piston, my Morini 3 1/2 Sport is like this.

Anyhow looks a good job, is this Ducati a 160 cc ?

Below is one of my Italians, my Gilera 150 Arcore, a cracking little machine.

Phil

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BonesCDI
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June 20, 2015 - 11:55 am
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Hi Phil,

There isn't a lot of information on this bike. They were apparently made for the US market. The Cadet also had a 2 stroke engine the same as the mountaineer, I think it was 125cc.

My bike is the 125cc Cadet 4 (I am presuming due to the 4 stroke engine) and the engine was only made for 10 months and is the last pushrod engine Ducati made. I was luck enough to have a spare engine with the bike as parts are virtually non existent.

When I was trying to source parts, a Ducati specialist (who also has the only other one I know of In Aust.) told me that there was about 15 of these bikes brought in to Australia, and one was to race.

My bike was purchased modified to some extent, and one of the things both engines have is a flat top piston? I had to build the roller starter to assist starting due to the compression. Therefore what you have said about a concave piston on Heron head bikes makes absolute sense. Ignition had been modified to total loss, so I may have the "race bike". However I have my suspicions about this, as I still have the headlights.

I personally think the compression is a touch high, and have my suspicions that my timing was difficult to set because of this.

The internals of the bike are good in some areas, and crap in others. There are open caged roller bearings that I can guarantee are unique Ducati items that would be near irreplaceable. 

That's enough about my bikes, that Gilera looks lovely. I have also had a soft spot for V twin Italian bikes as well. Any chance of side photo's of both bikes please. Had any electrical issues!!!............probably a stupid question for anyone who owns a 70's / 80's Italian bike. But both of them look really nice, and I have never seen a Gilera here like yours and the Morini's command big dollars here. I have often looked at them in the British classic bike mags, done the currency conversion in my head, and got depressed!! 

will keep all posted to progress,

Bones

Running and project bikes from 1912 -2005..........She hasn't said stop yet.........

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BonesCDI
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June 20, 2015 - 12:08 pm
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Hi Phil,

Just saw your thread on the Gilera................lovely bike, nice picks of the Morini as well.

Bones

Running and project bikes from 1912 -2005..........She hasn't said stop yet.........

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Cornish Rooster
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June 20, 2015 - 1:34 pm
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Bones,

Yes your Ducati is certainly an unusual machine !

When anyone mentions Italian bikes the subject of "Italian Electrics" always seems to crop up, actually they are not as bad as common folklore would have you believe, in most cases they are no worse and probably better than the equivalent period Brit offerings. The components are usually quite good quality, for example the original set up on the Gilera included a Bosch Ignition coil, also if you know your stuff you can use Fiat car parts from the same era, points/condensors etc, back in the day we used to fit Fiat car points to Moto Guzzis (cheap as chips).

The worse thing is usually the handlebar switches especially the chrome "Pill-box" type but even with these I have managed to repair them with a blob of solder and some Araldite ! When I first had the Morini it suffered from a dim headlamp when on dip beam, when I investigated I found that some bright spark had re-wired everything inside the headlamp with only blue wires !!

I eventually pulled the lot out and started again, plus I fitted a "Universal" type handlebar switch, the reason that the headlamp was dim was because the current was going right through the frame to the dip beam (one of those blue wires connected to earth).

Another thing with Italian bikes is they very often used the same wiring harness for different models so you can often find wires that are not used, if you know what you are doing then you can crop them out, also if you remove the indicators then you can remove a whole heap of wiring, simplifying everything even more.

Yes the Morinis fetch quite a bit these days, I don't use mine much but I am loathe to sell it as it really is a good one, the 350 Strada's can be had for reasonable money, a lot of owners used to say these are all the bike you will ever need, cheap to run, easy to look after yourself, comfortable, looks good plus it's an Italian Vee-Twin of course. The 350 Sport like mine really is a fantastic machine, one magazine said they are the nearest thing you can get to road going 1960's racing bike, that engine is just so quick revving though they are still happy to burble along at 60-65 mph almost like a baby Triumph twin but thats not easy as they really want to go all the time. Back in the 70's and 80's many experienced riders used to say a Morini 350 Sport was the quickest A to B bike on the road, back then one of my pals had a Honda 750 Four and when we used to go out for a ride he used to ask me if I was taking the Morini, when I asked why he used to say that if I took the Morini then he would have trouble keeping up !! As often with older Italian stuff it's amazing how what seems such a basic engine engineering wise can go so well, the Gilera is the same, revs like fury and about as far from something like a Honda CG 125 as you can imagine, all from a short stroke push rod engine.. amazing !!

Will keep looking back here to see how you are getting on, oh and yes agree with you about the compression ratio, mind my Morini runs an 11 to 1 as standard !!!

Phil

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cocorico
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June 20, 2015 - 6:25 pm
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Cornish Rooster said
Bones,

Yes your Ducati is certainly an unusual machine !

...............................
  

What he said, though i prefer the more upright posture of the Strada (or rather my back does). thumbs-up

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BonesCDI
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June 20, 2015 - 11:36 pm
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Any chance of a picture of yours Cocorico?

Thanks Phil I was unaware of the compatibility of the Fiat components, but that makes sense. It is a gorgeous looking bike isn't it, and the Italians have always had it over everyone else in that department as far as I am concerned.

The electrics on my Pantah and V50 Monza have both had their issues. Someone had wired a relay into the loom on the Pantah for what reason I don't know. I suspect it was to prevent the battery being drained when the bike is parked. Apparently the CDI unit that was used has diodes that fail and then have a path to earth that drains the battery. I just disconnect the battery after a ride which is easily accessible anyway. Also when starting as soon as you hear the faintest fire, drop your thumb of the starter as the starter drains power from the CDI to crank! It will fire up every time.

The Moto Guzzi is my brothers that I babysit as he lives Queensland. The switch blocks on the handlebars are well past their use by date, however I haven't seen a suitable replacement yet. The starter button feels like it is about to fall out, I never switch the headlight between Hi/Lo and I am waiting for them to dissolve into powder.

I have done a lot of work for my brother on his bikes. he has a 850 Le Mans that has been taken out to 960 with twin plug CDI upgrade (that is a story in itself!). He has fitted a full fairing and wanted to rationalise his instrument cluster, from 10 "idiot" lights to 5. needless to say there was some creative wiring in that. Fairing was supplied without brackets, which then had to be made. Fairing when fitted had to be trimmed to allow access to pedals..............It was a fair job but the end result was good.

And it still has the crappy switch blocks............................ 

regards,

Bones

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rsz_1982_500cc_ducati_pantah.jpg

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cocorico
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July 9, 2015 - 9:33 am
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BonesCDI said
Any chance of a picture of yours Cocorico?

Sorry for the delay, here it is, still needing a rewire and finishing.  1976 Strada, Nikasil cylinders and gas-flowed heads.

Not an oily rag in sight!

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