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D7 Banda
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BSAdave
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August 4, 2017 - 5:00 pm
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I have decided to have ago at fitting a Honda CG engine into my knackered bitsa Bantam, it was the first bantam that I owned and got me into all this bantam stuff.

I can't weld neither do I have access to a lathe  so I wanted to see if it could be done with out any of these things.

So here it goes, first job was to find a Honda in my price range not as easy as I first thought. After much internet searching a I found one that on paper looked like it might do. It came with lots of new parts that i will sell on.

The first job was to get it running while it was still in the frame. I cleaned the carb out and put a new spark plug in and I soon had it running.

The wiring is in a right mess but after much mucking about I got enough of it connected to get it to run, I checked the gears and they all worked.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4385/36228613821_9aee885b4e_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4389/35556825703_af66d97915_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4351/36196811932_e7f6942e78_b.jpg

Once I had it all striped down the fun really started , I put the engine into the Bantam frame to see how it would fit, first attempt and I thought I had got it in the right place only to find I had put it in too low and you could get access to the engines oil drain plug. so it all had to be moved up, then the exhaust would not fit  , moved it over then the chain would not line up, this all took many hours of mucking about until i got it just right, (fingers crossed)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4337/35556736943_e6f0274dd0_b.jpg

I then bolted the Honda's front engine mount to the frame , and used the BSA rear motor mounts turned up side down to mount the rear of the engine into place , this involved making two spacers to take up the gap, so far I had used the engine bolts that came of the Honda. 

I used the Honda head engine mount which lines up perfect with the seat/ tank bolt .

I still need to finish the top engine mount brackets.

The engine works.

feature=youtu.be

D1 D3 D5 D7 Suzuki TS 125, Yamaha YDS7 250

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BSAdave
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August 4, 2017 - 5:26 pm
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Foot rest, rear brake.

For the rear brake I moved the pillion hangers from one side to the other, my reasoning was simple I then had some where to connect the rear brake pedal to. the mounting holes would line up they just needed to be bent the over way round so they didn't point inwards,  on the side which is now the brake side i cut of the stub that the original brake pedal spring fixed to has this was now on the inside, I had a go and using the Bantam pedal but could not get the return spring to work. The Honda pedal was too wide at the pivot point , this was soon cut down both sides this allowed the Bantam pedal bolt to be used all I had to do then was drill a hole in the mounting plate and attach the Honda spring this all works well. I was then able to connect up the rear brake using the Honda wheel, which is a seventeen inch one. This fits straight into the Bantam swinging arm. 

Top head mount.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4389/35562122453_e24934ed7a_b.jpg

I will trim the bit that sticks out the top as this is stopping the tank from sitting in the right position.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4438/36370611225_2aa8d58c60_b.jpg

Bottom engine mounts.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4348/36202111202_936b686375_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4441/36325052566_7fb7cec8f3_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4424/36202129992_becfa2ffb6_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4408/36325763646_13acd6a995_b.jpg

Can you spot the problem I now have ?

yep that is right the foot rest don't fit as the exhaust and brake pedal are in the way.

Do you think the rear engine mounts that i have fitted will be OK? I was thinking of putting a brace between the the top and bottom mounts ???

D1 D3 D5 D7 Suzuki TS 125, Yamaha YDS7 250

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flintdog
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August 4, 2017 - 9:44 pm
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i dont like 2 say it but i think needs 2 b a bit stronger then that yes i would put a plate across the top 

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flintdog
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August 4, 2017 - 9:48 pm
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i like the honda handle r thay 4 sale i have put honda in a few bantams now just about 2 start again

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Anderzander
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August 5, 2017 - 12:14 am
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I'd assumed those engine plates were just temporary to get the thing in the right position - they definitely don't look good enough to be permanent.

On the subject of the right position - the sprocket looks miles away from the swinging arm pivot ?

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BSAdave
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August 5, 2017 - 10:56 am
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flintdog said
i dont like 2 say it but i think needs 2 b a bit stronger then that yes i would put a plate across the top   

Please keep telling me as i have not done any thing like this before.

D1 D3 D5 D7 Suzuki TS 125, Yamaha YDS7 250

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BSAdave
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August 5, 2017 - 11:06 am
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you are both right, I kept looking at it and it looked wrong ,as the saying goes if it looks wrong then it probably is wrong.

I am going to give it a re think ,

Last night I started it up in the frame and the engine didn't move but I'm going to make some stronger brackets and work out how to fit some foot rests the Honda ones bolted to the bottom of the engine I think there might be room to re fit them. Flit dog and Digby make it look so easy. I was going to keep the Bantam front end on but by using the rear wheel of the Honda I have no speedo drive. decisions decisions.

How easy is it to fit the Hondas forks into the Bantam ??

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4361/35574106163_84f4524d70_b.jpg

D1 D3 D5 D7 Suzuki TS 125, Yamaha YDS7 250

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BSAdave
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August 5, 2017 - 2:00 pm
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I had a go at making a better way of attaching the engine to the frame, the more I looked at it the more I could see that my first attempt was rubbish.

Its not finished yet , still need to make the shape a bit more descent. but i have run out of blades and material.Am i going in the right direction ???

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4345/36216394012_7e958368fc_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4360/36247775891_8d9963953c_b.jpg

D1 D3 D5 D7 Suzuki TS 125, Yamaha YDS7 250

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Anderzander
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August 5, 2017 - 5:43 pm
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Dave

From the photo I can't tell if you're going in the right direction.

At first It looked like you're mounting it on a plate that picks up the outer casing holes - but on closer inspection I'm guessing they are the engines proper mounting points.

As a guide to what you need - look at how it's originally mounted in the Honda frame and replicate that as closely as you can.

You want plates that pick up both pairs of engine mounts to stop it twisting - the front does that now and looks OK (except the engine looks far too far forward - more on that later).

Look at the plate thickness for the Honda mounts - and bearing in mind that your plates need to be quite a lot longer/wider - then you're going to need them to be thicker and stronger to cope with that.

Thats the easy bit - the position is critical though.

First thing is to get the chain line right. You don't want a chain snapping or coming off.

Second thing is to get the gearbox sprocket as close as possible to the swinging arm pivot - and as close to the standard bantam height as possible....

...... we can forget the performance affects - but the basics is that the further it is away the more likely the chain is to rub/eat into the swinging arm when the suspension fully compresses or is on full rebound.  The front sprocket looks quite large - so that should work in your favour.

If you can get those two things right you should at least end up with a bike that's safe - it may though still not be great to ride....  that shouldn't be a million miles away of you get the first two right but will also depend on where you end up moving the CoG etc.

So my summary is - move the engine backwards and make really good rear engine plates that pick up on the original Honda engine mounts and bolt to the bantam frame on its original mounts ...

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BSAdave
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August 6, 2017 - 11:16 am
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Thank you for that, The new plates pick up on the Honda engine mounting points and onto the Bantam frame engine mounting points, I took a lot of time making sure the front and rear sprockets lined up correctly, I fitted the chain and removed the rear shocks and moved the swinging arm through the full range of movements and the chain misses it my miles, in fact much better than with the Bantam engine and running gear. I do appreciate the comments so keep them coming. Still loads to do.

D1 D3 D5 D7 Suzuki TS 125, Yamaha YDS7 250

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flintdog
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August 6, 2017 - 9:47 pm
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dont rush it will b ok the front is as good as honda rear getting there 

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BSAdave
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August 20, 2017 - 6:22 pm
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Thank you for all your suggestions, I have now made new rear engine mounts, fitted the front end, made two brackets to lift the tank up an inch, made a housing for the ignition barrel and realigned the rear wheel using my home made jig and two lasers,made a bracket to hold the battery in position, this is what it started out like  ** Please log in to view **.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4336/35858701244_2f0044d0a4_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4357/35884144633_07aab56400_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4432/36693480875_1074dd4b7b_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4339/36247849650_123aeff0f8_b.jpg

SL370284.JPG

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D1 D3 D5 D7 Suzuki TS 125, Yamaha YDS7 250

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flintdog
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August 20, 2017 - 6:58 pm
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is that the same bike at bottom like the new bike hope it all rides well good job with the lazers

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Digby
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August 20, 2017 - 7:33 pm
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You should be pleased with your work,it looks great! and so much more satisfying knowing it's all your own effort,don't worry about a speedo you can always use a GPS one,or download an app on your smartphone.Braking could become an issue with the Bantam front brake,it will struggle to slow you down,with the increase in power ( relatively speaking) you will ride it quicker than a standard Bantam and consequently need to stop it quicker,CG forks especially the disc mounted ones are very worthwhile fitting and even the drum model will slow you up much more safely and you get a speedo drive thrown in for free!all this adds to the joy of riding with the knowledge that wherever you go on it,it will get you back home again.

Congratulations on a job well done!

cheers Digby

'68 D14 Sport,'65 Honda CB160 Sport,'49 D1 Rigid  ).'62 Honda 50 Sports Cub.'50 D1 plunger.

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flintdog
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August 20, 2017 - 9:37 pm
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nicely said digby some dont like the banda

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Anderzander
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August 21, 2017 - 12:11 am
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Digby - that is the Honda front end, so his brakes should be fine.

Dave - those rear engine mounts looks 100% better. Well done !  Also...... that looks like a series 3 in the picture? 😊

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BSAdave
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August 21, 2017 - 9:14 am
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flintdog said
is that the same bike at bottom like the new bike hope it all rides well good job with the lazers  

Hi, Thank you

Yes it is the same bike. Looks a lot different now .

D1 D3 D5 D7 Suzuki TS 125, Yamaha YDS7 250

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BSAdave
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August 21, 2017 - 9:18 am
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Anderzander said
Digby - that is the Honda front end, so his brakes should be fine.

Dave - those rear engine mounts looks 100% better. Well done !  Also...... that looks like a series 3 in the picture? 😊  

Thank you, it is a series 2, I sold it a couple of months ago, it has gone to a very good home, but part of the deal is that im not allowed to say who got it for the time being.

SL370286.JPG

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D1 D3 D5 D7 Suzuki TS 125, Yamaha YDS7 250

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BSAdave
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August 21, 2017 - 9:34 am
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Thank you Digby,

It is not as slick as your creations , but does the job. It is the first time of doing some thing like this and i found the whole process very enjoyable. One of the reasons for doing this is I might be getting a new job and I will no longer have the firms Van so needed transport to get to and from work. The Bantam I used was a bitsa any way and was rotting away in a shed and would have continued to do so. I had already snapped the crank in the D3 motor it came with then the D7 motor i replaced it with started to become  unreliable and will need a complete rebuild, and of course the lighting is not so good so factor in the price of a engine rebuild and better lighting ie a Bones ignition and you are talking a load of cash, this was by far the cheapest option , time I sell on all the left over bits and the D7 engine then this bike will be for free.  Has soon as the Exhaust silencer turns up it will be good to go. If it don't turn up by tomorrow then I will make one of the Bantam silencers fit so I can get the MOT. I have ridden it around the garden and it manèged to lift the front wheel up in the air by accident, It is hard to tell riding it about the garden but it does feel strong.

D1 D3 D5 D7 Suzuki TS 125, Yamaha YDS7 250

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BSAdave
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August 21, 2017 - 10:01 am
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While i was mucking about fitting the wheels it become obvious it needed new brake shoes, The Honda I got has a V5 but for some reason it is on a Q plate so had no idea what year it was, I sent the frame and engine numbers to David silver and it turns out it is a 1984 C series.

I then ordered a set of brake shoes for the front and back and was surprised on how cheap they were £13.98 for two pairs of genuine Honda brake shoes with the springs included now the D7 brake shoes would have been £45.80.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4432/35873670964_6a2767a9ed_b.jpg

The old ones,

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4407/35898800563_b0c3e0803d_b.jpg

D1 D3 D5 D7 Suzuki TS 125, Yamaha YDS7 250

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