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Alan's B175 restoration
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Alan.Moore
Leicestershire
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July 7, 2020 - 11:57 pm
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Big-End and conrod dimensions update

Update regarding my query about the big-end/conrod dimensions / clearances.

I picked up an Alpha reconditioned D10 conrod and big-end assembly on Ebay. Reconditioned back in the sixties and still had its yellow wax coating all over the big-end. 

I was hoping Alpha would have machined and then sleeved the conrod eye back to standard and then fitted a standard size crankpin.... If this had been the case I could have used the rod with my B175 crankpin ....but they have honed the eye out by about 14 thou and fitted an oversize D10/D14  crankpin. Therefore it won't be any good for the B175 (as the pin dia into the crank is different) it will however replace the one in my D14/4 engine.

Anyhow...now that I have a 'new' assembly (D10) to measure i can work out the tolerances and see how worn my B175 and D14 assemblies are.

The table below shows the measurements I've taken using a micrometer and telescoping gauges for the conrod eye. 

1.jpg

Row 7 shows the difference between the conrod eye int dia and the crankpin bearing dia. B175 and D14 are the same and are within 1/10 of a thou of the new assembly so that suggests there is no appreciable wear.

Row 13 shows the calculated 'bearing' radial clearance and again both are within 1/10 thou of the new assembly. NB This clearance is only 3/10 (4/10) of a thou which is a lot less than i was expecting.

The biggest difference was in the width of the conrod eyes compared with the new assembly. However, we are only talking about 5/6 thou which i cannot see as being a big issue.

My B175 flywheel with the groove worn into it by the conrod eye is with my local motorcycle engineering shop. The face is being machined flat (about 20 thou) and a hardened washer made to take it back to standard width. The washer will be held in place when the crankpin is pressed back in. I'll loose 20 thou of the flywheel 'gripping' on the pin but I think that will not be a problem.

Cheers

Alan

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

1939 Ariel VH, 1942 Ariel WNG, 1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird, 1970 BSA Bantam B175, 1980 Honda CB250N, 1986 Yamaha SRX600

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Alan.Moore
Leicestershire
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July 10, 2020 - 7:10 pm
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Mudguard pin-striping

Now that the paint has dried on the re-painted rear mudguard I've added the white pinstripe. I use 1/8" 3M fine lane tape (the plastic blue stuff) to lay out where the line needs to go than apply a 1/4" strip of tape either side as a mask. Remove the 1/8" tape from the centre and paint in the pinstripe with a small brush. I use Plasticote fast dry project enamel thinned a little with water to make it flow better. Three thin coats (15 mins between coats) and then remove the mask tape when its gone off but not fully dry.

Having done the rear mudguard the original paint front mudguard looked a bit 'sad' as after 50 yrs of polishing the pinstripe had all but disappeared. I agonised for a few hours whether to re-do it. The original side panel pinstripes are still very clear and I decided that the front mudguard would looked kind of odd as it was so i re-did the stripe.

Once the paints gone off a good going over with T cut will knock off the sharp edges and 'weather' it a bit.

The stripes have come out about 1/16" wider than the originals as its difficult to consistently place the 1/4" tape exactly alongside the 1/8" tape....but they are the same width as the toolbox stripes so at least they all match.

SDC13670.JPG

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Cheers

Alan

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

1939 Ariel VH, 1942 Ariel WNG, 1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird, 1970 BSA Bantam B175, 1980 Honda CB250N, 1986 Yamaha SRX600

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Alan.Moore
Leicestershire
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July 12, 2020 - 8:42 pm
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Front Forks

Striped the front forks using an 'adapted' open ended spanner with a couple of M5 screws to engage with the holes in the seal holder. They were tight but it worked a treat

SDC13604.JPG

I measured up the bushes and all were with the factory specs so, whilst the bottom ones had a few scores in them, I'll see how they perform before replacing. 

There were two main areas of wear on the stanchions which coincided with the forks being at full extension (like they would be when bike on the stand) and appeared to have been made by the bottom few coils of the springs.

SDC13605.JPG

I've read that this is quite common? I'll look at putting a thin plastic sleeve inside the bottom of the spring to prevent the spring rubbing on the leg. The upper part of the stanchion where the seal would run in normal use was undamaged and smooth. I've 'repaired' the damaged areas with JB weld applied with a new stanley knife blade and then wet and dried smooth. We'll see if it works, if not I'll get new stanchions, they seem a bit thin on the ground at the moment.

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I've been reading up on the stepped plastic bushes on this forum plus a BSA and a Triumph forum as there are a few bikes that use the same system as the Bantam heavyweight forks. Consensus of opinion is that the plastic bush is fitted with the wider end downwards and it should be a fairly tight press fit in the top of the fork-leg, sitting directly below the top bush. Its purpose is to cover the two damper holes in the bottom of the stanchion when the forks reach full extension providing a hydraulic stop to help prevent the forks topping out with a crash. Mine were a light sliding fit in the fork leg so I sprayed them with etch primer and then a few coats of normal primer until I got to the stage where they needed a bit of force to fit them.

You need to fit the stanchion first then slide the plastic bush down into the top of the leg. I used the top bush fitted in the fork seal holder to gently knock it into the correct position. Then with a new rubber O ring (from Draganfly....it fitted fine) and a new fork seal (lips down) the seal holder is screwed back on. I'd measured the depth of the top bush in the seal holder and found that there should be 1 to 1 1/2 threads showing on the fork leg when the bush was fully seated. 

SDC13681.JPG

I fitted the oil seal using a socket, just a bit smaller than the seal OD, on a short extension and kept tapping it in until the sound changed showing it was fully down. The seal sits a bit lower than the top of the recess in the seal holder.

SDC13686.JPG

A few points I had read about when fitting the top bush and fork seal holder. First is to remember to fit the thin washer before the bush, second lubricate the bush and the already fitted O ring well with some grease and then sort of rock the bush past the O ring without using any real force or you damage the O ring. The third is to just take the edge off the top of the fork leg where there is a plain section, above the threads, which the O ring seals onto. This prevents that top edge cutting the O ring as you screw the seal holder on.

I cleaned the springs and gave them a few coats of Zinc galvanising spray (screwfix). I'll be fitting new rubber washers, with zinc plated washers, which are supposed to seal the upper end of the fork stanchion inside the bottom of  the headlamp bracket

SDC13690.JPG

So one down, second one will be easy...not. Maybe it was the pint of Guinness or a senior moment but i pressed in the plastic bush before I put the stanchion into the fork leg.

SDC13687.JPG

Oh **it. How the heck do I get that out without damaging it ? Another Guinness to calm the nerves and I mackled together a sort of slide hammer type puller...worked as treat. got it right second time round

SDC13689.JPG

Well thats it for today.

I hope someone is actually still following all this. Feels a bit lonely...is there anybody out there wave

Cheers

Alan 

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

1939 Ariel VH, 1942 Ariel WNG, 1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird, 1970 BSA Bantam B175, 1980 Honda CB250N, 1986 Yamaha SRX600

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cocorico
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July 12, 2020 - 9:02 pm
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Certainly! popcorn

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July 12, 2020 - 11:37 pm
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Quality work.

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Stoo63
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July 13, 2020 - 8:20 am
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I think there's plenty folk watching, Alan, it's just that you're so thorough and meticulous, there's little for users to add. You've been a great addition to the Forum. This is just the kind of contribution we love. Great stuff, keep it up thumbs-up  🙂 

'52 D1 direct lighting plunger; '58 Square Four (project); '55 D3 Battery; '59 D1 direct lighting plunger;  '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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stubaker58
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July 13, 2020 - 9:05 am
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I’ll second that, what a joy to see someone doing a proper job without just replacing everything in sight and letting us peer over his shoulder!

Many thanks and keep going.

D7/14 hybrid (4 speed with D7 crank etc.) on the road, D10 Bushman awaiting rebuilding.

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Alan.Moore
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July 13, 2020 - 10:27 pm
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Thanks chaps...good to know I'm not just talking to myself. 

Made up a couple of plastic sleeves for the bottom of the fork springs to stop them wearing away at the fork stanchions. Another example of the importance of keeping old 'tat' just in case it comes in handy....these were made using the suction tube from an old vacuum cleaner which was exactly the right size to push into the spring and be a loose sliding fit on the stanchion. I've pushed them in a bit further than the bottom of the spring so that they clears the wiper seal.

 

SDC13697.JPG

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Cheers

Alan

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

1939 Ariel VH, 1942 Ariel WNG, 1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird, 1970 BSA Bantam B175, 1980 Honda CB250N, 1986 Yamaha SRX600

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cocorico
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July 14, 2020 - 8:16 am
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That's why I have a shed full of junk potentially useful articles. Thanks again for your useful and informative posts.

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Alan.Moore
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July 14, 2020 - 7:35 pm
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I mentioned before that this is my Dad's bike which he bought in 1979. He's 87 now and, what with Covid restrictions and his reduced mobility, he can't easily come round and have a look at how I'm getting on. However, he can follow the restoration progress on the forum and a few comments makes a difference so thanks again.

Today..forks back in. Made a 'puller' out of a spare fork top nut with the hex ground off and a bit of studding screwed into it. A socket for a spacer, so that the adapted top nut had somewhere to go, and an old bearing to reduce the friction when turning the pullers nut. I found I needed a puller because, to get the top of the stanchion into the taper, you have to compress the spring. I'd marked the stanchions so that I could re-fit them with the repaired area of wear (originally to the front of the stanchion) was now to the side.

SDC13706.JPG

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Cheers

Alan

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

1939 Ariel VH, 1942 Ariel WNG, 1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird, 1970 BSA Bantam B175, 1980 Honda CB250N, 1986 Yamaha SRX600

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Alan.Moore
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July 17, 2020 - 12:10 am
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Rear Shocks

I posted earlier that my rear shocks had a couple of plastic spacers and a rubber bump stop which reduced the travel of the shocks to about 1.5 - 1 3/4 inches. No info / thoughts were put forward regarding why they don't seem to appear on all B175's, or in fact on any other models rear shocks. Seems odd that BSA would spec them to be made this way for no reason as the spacers and rubber would have to be fitted by the manufacturer i.e Girling. 

SDC13603.JPG

I'm an inquisitive sort of chap and l think that there must be some engineering reason for this. So having thought about it......:

The damper body can be compressed to 1" from the top cap (about level with the bottom edge of the top plastic spacer) so its not to limit the travel of the damper internals to stop them bottoming out.

With the springs assembled the shocks have a stroke of close to 2 1/4 inches until the springs become coil bound.

With the wheel fitted (18") there is about 3.0 - 3.5 inches of space between top of tyre and underside of mudguard so its not to stop the tyre hitting mudguard on full compression.

The rubber bump stop has a 1/2 inch void in the lower end which would give a full stroke of close to 1 3/4 inches (the 1.5 inches gap shown above plus a bit of crush from the rubber).

So it appears the spacers and bump stop are there to prevent the springs becoming fully coil bound and give a bit of cushioning when they get close to being fully compressed, which would probably only happen occasionally with a pillion on board. 

Or have I missed something?

Anyway... Painted the shocks and springs and zinc plated the collets. One damper was U/S so I got an old D7 one from a nice chap on the Facebook group and cut off the shroud. Damper was fine and I used my old springs. I've cut off those plastic bushes but left the rubber bump stop in place as I can move it down the damper rod and see just how far the shocks are compressing when in use.

Made a 'tool' from a bit of steel tube with two 'legs' welded on to compress the springs and release / fit the collets. There's a 'U' shaped bracket which bolts to the shock lower mount and from this a length of studding which goes up through the tube with a big washer on top and a nut. Tighten the nut and the spring is compressed. A short length of plastic tube over the damper body helps keep it all in line and help protect the paint.

SDC13700.JPG

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Had a senior moment again...initially tried to fit the collets in the groove at the top of the damper body...what the ....! why don't they fit. Well of course, they fit over the TOP of the damper body. More haste less speed as they say.

SDC13711.JPG

All done and the painted and striped mudguard back on. 

The bikes certainly been apart before and the mudguard bolts were a mixture of Whitworth and BSF and all a bit scabby with no markings on the heads. Ages ago my Dad gave me a big tin of oily nuts and bolts he inherited from his uncle yonks ago. Never found a use for them as they seemed to have an odd thread pitch and the Ariels I've been restoring are all BSC. Well they were mainly UNF and BSF so I've now got a full set of front and rear mudguard bolts, with marked heads, which I've Zinc plated. I bought new UNF nuts, washers, spring and serrated washers from Nookys nuts. 

SDC13715.JPG

SDC13716.JPG

Cheers

Alan

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

1939 Ariel VH, 1942 Ariel WNG, 1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird, 1970 BSA Bantam B175, 1980 Honda CB250N, 1986 Yamaha SRX600

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Lone Wolf
The Black Country
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July 19, 2020 - 1:49 am
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Alan.Moore said

Today..forks back in. Made a 'puller' out of a spare fork top nut with the hex ground off and a bit of studding screwed into it. 

SDC13706.JPG

Cheers

Alan  

Wotcha.

Ah, the good ol' "nut-onna-stick"

I made one for my B175 a few years back - ** Please log in to view ** has the details.

^..^

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Alan.Moore
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July 28, 2020 - 1:17 am
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Rear Wheel

The rear wheel rim was a bit rusty, but the areas between the spoke holes and on the edges of the rim were OK, as was the inside.

SDC13341-1.JPG

As I am trying to keep as much of the bike original as possible I have decided, for now, to just clean up the rim with wire wool and apply a bit of silver paint to the rusty areas with a bit of cloth.

The original spoke nipples on the rear are steel and were pretty grotty. With plenty of WD40, and a bit of heat, I managed to get them all undone. The spokes (10g) had been over-painted and, having removed this, the original galvanising was still good (although it was now dark grey in colour) with no rust and the threads were still well defined. Its not a good idea to re-plate spokes as you can get hydrogen embrittlement, which causes then to fracture, so I've cleaned them up without removing the galvanising and, after etch priming, sprayed them with zinc galvanising paint (screwfix). I had a set of new nipples from an Ariel project so have used these.

The long sides spokes are all the same but the short side have 90 degree bends on the outer's and about 70/80 degrees on the inner's. 

The hub was blasted with ground glass in my DIY blast cabinet and, after etch priming, sprayed with Hammerite smooth silver, which gives a silver/grey satin finish close to the original. I Zinc plated the various nuts etc.

SDC13775-1.JPG

I found a steel dust cap fitted inside the hub on the inside of the speedo side wheel bearing (shown next to the lower wheel bearing above). Its not shown in the B175 parts list, the only parts list i could find showing it was the B175 bushman parts list (37-3520 wheel bearing seal). I have fitted new double rubber sealed bearings so this has been omitted.

I had measured the wheel offset (brake drum outer edge to wheel rim) at 38mm so i rebuilt it to that. Of interest... on the original rim, whilst only 1 in four of the spokes actually reached the end of the nipples all the nipples had been 'ground' so it looks like the wheel building chap/chapess just ran round all the nipples with the grinder when they finished lacing.

New rim tape, inner-tube and Mitas 3.00x18 H-03 tyre fitted.

The speedo drive was dismantled by removing the inner shield (light press fit) and fibre seal and flushing through to get rid of the old grease before spraying and re-greasing. Its a 2:1 drive (for a 19 inch wheel) and should be a 19:10 (18 inch wheel) so will give about 5% under speed on the speedo. However, as the speedo's normally read about 10% over its not going to be an issue.

So here's what it looked like before:

SDC13314.JPG

 

And after:

SDC13783.JPG

Sidepanel (original paint) now has the correct Dzus fasteners fitted instead of roofing bolts it had.

Rear mudguard re-painted and pinstriped as shown previously.

Rear number plate needed a few holes welding up where a yellow and black number plate had been bolted on and has now been resprayed.

 

Cheers

Alan

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

1939 Ariel VH, 1942 Ariel WNG, 1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird, 1970 BSA Bantam B175, 1980 Honda CB250N, 1986 Yamaha SRX600

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lbayorkie
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July 31, 2020 - 9:22 am
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Looks a lot better now. Ive never found a speedo drive with an inner shield that was anything but a tight fit and attempting to remove it just damaged it. Did you apply any particular technique?

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Alan.Moore
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July 31, 2020 - 5:59 pm
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Just gave it a good spraying with WD40 and then used a flat, thinnish, wide bladed screwdriver between the push in cover and the felt washer. Twisted screwdriver, lifted cover a smidge them moved round and repeated. Eventually it popped out.

Cheers

Alan

1939 Ariel VH, 1942 Ariel WNG, 1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird, 1970 BSA Bantam B175, 1980 Honda CB250N, 1986 Yamaha SRX600

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lbayorkie
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August 1, 2020 - 7:51 pm
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Thanks, pretty much what Ive done in the past, albeit without the WD40. I will give it another try.

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Alan.Moore
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August 7, 2020 - 10:38 pm
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Front Wheel

Front wheel has now been dismantled and rebuilt. The 12 gauge spokes still had their original galvanising and the threads were good so they got the Zinc galvanising spray treatment as per the rears. The brass nipples were all good so I cleaned them up and zinc plated them. The rims were a bit flaky in places but there's still plenty of chrome on them so, following the goal of trying to keep as much original as possible, I've cleaned them up as per the rear rim.

I did find that there was a different 'feel' when tensioning the 12 gauge spokes and brass nipples compared with the 10 gauge and steel nipples in the rear wheel. On the rear I just used some oil to lubricate the threads but with the fronts I needed to copper grease the threads and nipples to get a 'feel' for how tight they were. Offset drum face to rim set at 16mm.

I've covered my investigations into the presence, or not, of a shim on the front wheel spindle and centering of the wheel here: ** Please log in to view **

Anyway, its all back together with new bearings, rim tape, inner tube and Mitas tyre. I've decided to keep the front mudguard in original paint, just reinstated the faded white pinstripe to match the rear mudguard. 

SDC13336.JPG

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sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

1939 Ariel VH, 1942 Ariel WNG, 1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird, 1970 BSA Bantam B175, 1980 Honda CB250N, 1986 Yamaha SRX600

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Alan.Moore
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August 13, 2020 - 8:16 pm
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Flywheel repair

Back at the start of this topic I showed how my right hand flywheel's inner face had been worn away by the hardened outer face of the conrod eye. Got lots of good advice on the forum. As a result I have had the damaged area machined to take a pressed in phosphor bronze thrust washer. The chap that did it was able to retain the inner section of the flywheel, where the bigend pin presses in, so the repair has not altered the centering of the pin/conrod. The main-shaft was left in situ whilst machining was done as the wear was only 19 thou deep and didn't extend down onto the end of the mainshaft, which was slightly under the level of the flywheel face.

Very pleased with the job and it cost just under £60 which I think is reasonable. Was done by SEP at Kegworth, Derbyshire (just off M1 junc 24) who are an old school engineering shop who are used to dealing with old Brit bike engines. However, you do have to keep chasing them up...my three weeks turnaround ended up being six weeks.

Here's a before and after:

SDC13444b.jpg 

SDC13833.JPG

Cheers

Alan

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

1939 Ariel VH, 1942 Ariel WNG, 1951 Triumph 6T Thunderbird, 1970 BSA Bantam B175, 1980 Honda CB250N, 1986 Yamaha SRX600

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Stoo63
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August 13, 2020 - 8:21 pm
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The last few posts have been an inspiration, Alan. I'm sure we'd all love to achieve the results you do in all areas 🙂

'52 D1 direct lighting plunger; '58 Square Four (project); '55 D3 Battery; '59 D1 direct lighting plunger;  '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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