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D14 Kickstart problems
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PeteMcD
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October 29, 2011 - 11:43 am
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I mentioned in an earlier thread problems with my D14 kickstart which occasionally jammed in the upright position. I discovered that the 5 hole plate behind the kickstart spring (item 50 in diagram below), was missing. I thought this might have allowed excessive float on the quadrant causing occasional jam against the starter sprocket. Suggestions mentioned use of a thicker primary cover gasket which other members had found to resolve this problem.

Having stripped down the engine to find several other aspects in a sorry state I have paid particular attention to items on the primary side as I was not entirely convinced about the above problem.

I also found that the O-Ring and washer that fit inwards of the engine socket (items 31 & 30 below) were also missing and replacements have been obtained from T&G although I’m not sure what the function of these two parts is, any enlightenment appreciated ?

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/PeteMcD/Primaryproblems.jpg

Having started this weekend to reassemble the engine I find now that am not happy about the existing thrust washer that was fitted between the clutch bush and bearing (item 15 above). The one on my engine seems a sloppy fit on the gearbox mainshaft and also seems too thick at a little over 3mm. This creates an excessive overlap between the kickstart pinion and the quadrant, which would seem a more likely cause of the initial problem in para one. I would estimate a thrust washer of about 1mm thickness would give a balanced and even mesh between pinion and quadrant. I could machine one myself but it would be mild steel whereas the correct version would be hardened.

Before I order a replacement for sometime next week, can anyone advise if the correct washer should be as thick as the one mentioned and shown in photo below. Because of the kickstart problem I am determined to sort it properly and all these items seem inter related; as I mentioned elsewhere, the joys of an eBay purchase !

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/PeteMcD/Clutchthrustwasher.jpg

Whilst examining other parts on the primary side, I noticed two small gauges on the top of the inside primary cover (photo below) – given findings so far, any suggestions as to what might have caused these ?

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/PeteMcD/Primarycovergauges.jpg

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BASIL
Hamstreet,Ashford.
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October 29, 2011 - 12:24 pm
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Hi, thats caused by a worn primary chain, but it might have been done by a previous chain and been replaced since so check the chain before replacing unnesesarly. Regards Basil.

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Doug Brown
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October 29, 2011 - 11:58 pm
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Yep I can cofirm basils theory.I had a cheap chain fitted by a previous mechanic! The max deflection of the chain should be 5/8th`s inch , mine was over an inch and I have the same bodgers scars on my cases.

Triumph Thunderbird 900 Yamaha rxs 100 and too many bantams !

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Somerstown
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October 30, 2011 - 10:46 am
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Must be contagious! On mine as well!.
http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp82/carshalton75/Bantam%20Engine/Damage3.jpg

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PeteMcD
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October 30, 2011 - 12:36 pm
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Thanks Basil, Doug & Somers. I'd guessed chain rash but couldn't figure out how it could be on the top of the casing. Like Doug I found nearly an inch of movement so a new primary chain on order and fingers crossed that the sprockets aren't too worn.

Test fitting the primary chain also probably solved my other query about the thickness of the clutch basket thrust washer. I had to fit the original thicker one (3.04mm) to allow the engine and clutch sprockets to line up, I guess therefore the sloppy fit (+0.8mm) of the washer on the mainshaft must be par for the course ?

This then leads to the original problem of the kickstart quadrant not engaging cleanly with the clutch pinion. The photo below shows the situation with about a 2mm overlap between the two. It just doesn’t look right but I can’t figure what I’m doing wrong. Any words of wisdom appreciated.

Brgds,

Pete

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/PeteMcD/ClutchQuadrantmesh.jpg

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Bournemouth Bantams
St. Veep, Lostwithiel, Cornwall
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November 1, 2011 - 10:59 am
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Hi Pete
From memory there is no thrust washer behind the bearing 15, the only thrust washer I can remember is Item 39 which should be neadles set in a circle.
but it is a while since I stripped a 4 speed engine.
Might be worth checking the drive cog on the cranck lines up with the drive on the basket, if these are not parallel this would pull the primary chain out line causing excesive ware.

good luck "H"

Supplier and stockist of Bantam spares.

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nick
Surrey
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November 1, 2011 - 8:15 pm
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Hi Pete
I think Howard is correct there is a "cup" that supports the ratchet spring it sits on the bearing ball seperators the bronze bush then sits on the inner race I hope that makes sense! If it helps I could try & put some picture on
Good luck Nick

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PeteMcD
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November 1, 2011 - 11:32 pm
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Thanks Howard & Nick. As I mentioned above, it became obvious that the thick thrust washer (item 15) that I found fitted, and shown four photos above, is the correct one and is indeed necessary to align the engine and clutch sprockets. The hole in it just seemed a sloppy fit on the shaft. It’s certainly meant to be there and is referred to on page B14 of the workshop manual thus: [i]Slide the hardened steel thrust washer over the mainshaft, followed by the cylindrical mainshaft bush. Replace the clutch drum.
[/i]
With regards the mesh between the kickstart quadrant and pinion, I found by fitting an additional 0.5mm shim washer behind the spring plate this brought the two sets of teeth to a more efficient match whilst still avoiding any binding between the kickstart shaft and the primary case cover. As opened up, my engine was entirely missing the spring backing plate which is 1mm thick, so altogether I’ve dispensed with a total 1.5mm of float on the kickstart shaft which I believe was the source of the original problem. Ceratinly it’s all gone back together well and seems to work fine – fingers crossed it remains so.

Thanks everyone for the input received, time to move on to some other problems !

Brgds,
Pete

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