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Ibayorkie's D1
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cocorico
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December 16, 2019 - 3:02 pm
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Before doing anything else, have you tried fitting it in the frame with the speedo drive to see if it cures the problem that has been worrying you? If everything fits OK, do as Glen suggests.

1956 D3 running, lights to sort. 7 other bikes in the Barn. 1950 D1 engine being rebuilt (slowly).

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lbayorkie
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December 18, 2019 - 12:53 pm
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Yes, I checked that first. This 'original' wheel seems to have all its original components I just need to replace the bearings. I had a go last week but I couldnt get the spindle more than half way out.  I tried with a mallet but I didnt want to force it ant more so put it back together. Will revisit when I have scoured the forum for anyone with a similar problem.

 

Thanks

Alan

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Stoo63
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December 18, 2019 - 2:30 pm
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Is there a problem with the bearings, Alan? If not, I would leave well alone and if it fits, I'd fit it before some other misfortune befalls you. If it ain't broke....

Al the best,

Stewart

'52 D1 direct lighting plunger, '58 Square Four (project), '59 D1 direct lighting plunger,  '59 Tiger Cub, '60 5TA,  '76 FS1-E

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bantammad
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December 18, 2019 - 3:07 pm
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Hi bantammad ere can I stick my five penuth in whenever you have discrepancies like you have with your rear wheel assembly l would ask whats the dimensions of all components including hub width? Just a thought I’ve found some clever people on this forum that knows there stuff that can really help regards LES

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lbayorkie
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December 18, 2019 - 5:49 pm
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Wheel spins freely but theres a bit of a click every revolution. Its only slight but i think once its under load it will be worse. 

Alan

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lbayorkie
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February 11, 2020 - 2:15 pm
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Hi

Early D1 rigids had 1/2" rear spindles. Later D1's had 5/8 rear spindles (if I'm not mistaken)

Did the later models have a larger hub diameter to accommodate a larger bearing or did they use a bearing with the same external diameter (and larger internal hole?)

Its hard to tell from the drawings and parts books.

Thanks

Alan

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February 11, 2020 - 3:12 pm
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Gawd, I can never remember these measurements and I have both bikes stashed away. I`ve got a later  hub nearby, let me check. I know it`s been covered, even "Matelot`s Mum" broke an early spindle on her adventures in USA, I read in her book. Munchkin on here did too, if I remember correctly. I think you are correct on the measurements.

If you measure your hub and spindle, I`ll try and find you a link to a bearing to suit.

Blue

Some time later......

Ok, dug out the later spindle with all its hub components fitted in order along its length and greased to high heaven, including the 6202 bearings. Bit of play in those, so I`ll buy a sealed pair to replace the old open ones. My digital vernier caliper has grown legs and walked off, so I used an open-end spanner to roughly check the spindle dia and a 9/16 won`t fit over, but a 5/8" does.

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lbayorkie
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February 11, 2020 - 5:47 pm
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Thanks for the offer to find a bearing.

The spindle diameters I gave should be accurate. I was hoping to avoid dismantling the hub but if/when I do I will let you know.

If anyone knows the answer to 'are the hubs the same size (internal diameter) off the top of their head please let me know. 

Im pretty certain the later hub is slightly bigger, presumably by 1/8 of an inch.

 

Thanks

Alan

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lbayorkie
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February 11, 2020 - 9:01 pm
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Think I may have answered my own question looking back at my previous posts. Could anyone give me the external diameter of a bearing for a D1 with a 5/8 spindle please? 

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February 11, 2020 - 9:19 pm
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I thought my 5/8" open-ender was a bit sloppy on the spindle. I`d tried 14mm, didn`t fit-didn`t expect it to, and gave up looking for my 15mm spanner...

Just googled 6202 bearing measurements...

"The 6202 15 mm Ball Bearing Inner Dimension 15mm X Outer Dimension 35mm X Width 11mm is an open style ball bearing designed for high rotational speeds and high dynamic loads."
 
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lbayorkie
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February 12, 2020 - 3:12 am
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So 35mm must be the diameter of the housing in the hub. I will now check one of my spare bearings for a 1/2" spindle and this should confirm the hub is bigger. 

Interesting your search returned results in mm I would have expected imperial however given the German origins of the design I shouldnt be surprised. I seem to remember Bantam John telling me that many of the dims were originally in mm and just converted to imperial so it could be the bearings are components fall into this category.

Thanks for your help

Alan

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February 12, 2020 - 3:46 pm
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Yes 35mm. 

Good old Brit bikes, every size imaginable was used over the years ....even C3-fit bearings for those worn housings too.

Cheers

Blue

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lbayorkie
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February 17, 2020 - 1:26 pm
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Back on the topic of trying to convert my plunger wheel to fit a rigid frame.

I need  a bearing with the outer diameter and width of  90-6063 (which fits the rebates in the plunger wheel hub) and the inner diameter of part 90-5525 which fits the 1/2" spindle.

I have no idea how may permuations there are for bearings, hopefully they are available in an almost infinite variety of sizes and the dealer will have a parts book which gives him the dimensions for the part number I have quoted.

Is it realistic to go to a bearing dealer and quote these part numbers and expect them to have a bearing to fit?

Hope someone can help.

Alan

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February 17, 2020 - 1:48 pm
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Hi Alan,

Will see what I can find for you. I use Simply Bearings...but have used many others.

First can you get an exact measurement of your spindle for me, using a digital vernier caliper please?

Some time later: Simply Bearings weren`t forthcoming, so far only found possible suitable bearings in USA...but I`d be very surprised if there weren`t bearings available in the UK.

You`ve checked through this little lot in inches have you?...** Please log in to view **

If someone can beat me to this find then fair enough...but I would need that exact spindle measurement.....in mm please. Yes I know what 12mm is in imperial, but want to see if your spindle has worn much.

Could just fit the bigger internal diameter bearings and make some sleeves up and locktite into the centre race.

Blue

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lbayorkie
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February 17, 2020 - 5:47 pm
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Thanks Blue

The bearing in my wheel is part 90-5525, and has had a collar made (by Bantam John) so it fits the hub. I still have issues with it so I thought I would start from basics. I went through this in a previous post a long time ago and someone suggested I should get some oversize bearings, so really I was just reacting (belatedly) to that.

I dont want to take my hub apart at this stage in case I cant get the collar back in position and then find I cant get a new bearing to fit. I was just thinking of going with the 'new' dimensions of the bearings.

I will look at your email in more detail later.

Alan

 

 

 

 

.

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February 17, 2020 - 6:45 pm
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Ah yes I remember now Alan. Trying to picture how sleeving out the hub would cause issues though? If the sleeve/s were loose, they could probably be loctited ok....or are they split sleeves? Or have the retaining collars been discarded and ⁂ the outer bearing races are now no longer being held inboard of the hub? Otherwise I  can`t imagine much of a problem, as long as you have the centre spacer in place and all the other hub& spindle components in the right order. Assuming they are correct items.....which is never a given with these old machines that have often been through so many hands.

I may have mentioned previously I was presented with a D1 Plunger to sort c2007, that had the centre rear wheel bearings spacer missing, on a supposedly fully restored bike. Found phenomenal amount of issues with that bike, which I corrected and documented...so may do a write-up on it one day. Always expect a few issues, but that one was a shock because it had a top paint job and stainless fittings everywhere, pretty bike.

Blue

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lbayorkie
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February 17, 2020 - 8:55 pm
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The bearings fit snugly but as far as correct components go I suspect they are not all the correct ones and I suspect also the hub bearing thrust washer may not even have been fitted.

Its a real minefield. All I can do is strip everything and try to rebuild using trial and error. I am concerned that the wheel centre spacer (distance piece) is either not the right length or diameter but as I dont know what the measurements are even if I get it out I wont be any the wiser. The 1/2" spindle distance piece has a different part number than the one for the 9/16" version so it may be the wrong one has been fitted. The other thing is that if the hub is wider for the plunger I will need a custom made distance piece which it the width of the plunger 9/16 hub but the diameter of the 1/2" spindle!

The link to Draganfly was very helpful thanks. I had looked at their site many times before but some things are hidden away.

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February 17, 2020 - 11:47 pm
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Ok , I`ve got some ideas on this, that`ll hopefully do away with any `unknown quantity` issues, will prove useful , fairly straightforward & cheap to execute. I`ll hopefully find time to post them later this week. Watch this space.........

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lbayorkie
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February 19, 2020 - 5:38 pm
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I've found a local company who can get hold of bearings that are 35 x 12 x 11mm, which equate to the outer diameter and width of the hub for the 5/8 spindle, and the internal diameter to fit the 1/2" spindle.

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February 19, 2020 - 6:58 pm
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lbayorkie said
I've found a local company who can get hold of bearings that are 35 x 12 x 11mm, which equate to the outer diameter and width of the hub for the 5/8 spindle, and the internal diameter to fit the 1/2" spindle.  

Are you feeling lucky? 🙂 Until you strip it down, you wont know.

This is why I wanted the exact measurement of your 1/2" spindle...because if it is a true 1/2" then 12mm inner race bearing will most likely be too tight or not fit at all. I didn`t bother you with the 13mm I found, because they would be too sloppy.

Anyway, here are my thoughts for possibly ploughing on with your modified hub as is, if needs be....

Make sure bearings have retainers to stop them moving laterally within the hub housing. Make sure the assembly is not such that the inner races are preloaded....because this knocks out simple ball bearings very quickly. Bearings must turn freely.

Speedo drive housing must not bind on the hub, but drive must engage sufficiently with the hub tangs to provide a meaty connection between the two components. Again, no preloading of the drive unit

Gearbox sprocket and rear wheel sprocket must be inline.

Check wheel alignment as mentioned previously. This is so bike tracks safely and so mudguard does`t rub on the tyre and chain/sprockets don`t assume some odd wear characteristics.

As for the made-to-measure spacer, once you`ve measured up, there`s probably one that size kicking around, only a quick Internet search away. There`ll certainly be something of suitable internal dia you can cut down carefully yourself, using fairly basic equipment, to provide a flush-fitting spacer.

Blue 

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