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Ibayorkie's D1
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lbayorkie
Otley, West Yorkshire
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June 10, 2019 - 1:48 pm
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Its true I have had a lot of problems. Some have been resolved but progress is slow. I don't have the time to really 'get stuck in' until I retire (work 5 days a week, grand kids, elderly mother etc..etc). Plan was to ride it around until then and at that point strip it down properly. 

I noticed a problem with the rear of the bike early on. I found out it was the wrong wheel, so I had it converted to fit the frame, which seemed fine but the mudguard wouldnt fit, I spent months bodging the mudguard and then looked again at the frame and realised it was bent. The trouble is its hard to know where to start, is one component wrong or all they all wrong?

I think now I have realised the frame isnt quite right the answer is probably to get it jigged up. The frame is the logical place to start but I cant see me having time to strip it down until I retire, so Im just going to have to accept that. At least it will give me the time to save up some money for the jigging!

I am actually quite lucky, having very recently met someone who knows a bit about Bantams who has offered to help where he can, so with luck there will be less questions going forward- but I cant impose on him too much of course.

 

Alan

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cocorico
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June 10, 2019 - 2:34 pm
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lbayorkie said
...I am actually quite lucky, having very recently met someone who knows a bit about Bantams who has offered to help where he can, so with luck there will be less questions going forward...

That's part of the problem - we've been trying to help solve the questions from a distance. Much easier if you can actually see and feel the bike.

1956 D3 running, lights to sort. 7 other bikes in the Barn. 1950 D1 engine now running.

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mike p5xbx
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June 10, 2019 - 4:12 pm
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the angle of the N/Side “dropout” is quite obviously wrong (post 216 bottom photo)
the two side must be parallel and in line
the frame is bent and must have been in an accident to cause that amount of misalignment

D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

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stubaker58
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June 11, 2019 - 8:26 am
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I think you’re right to say start with the frame and in your position I’d have to go to a specialist too. Stripping the frame is not too many hours work, easily achieved in a day as you won’t be taking down other items just removing them. The front end will come off in one piece, the engine out and then you’re almost there.

looking at the frame I agree about the near side dropout, it looks as if it’s been welded back on wrongly.  You could also get an idea about how far forward the distortion is by seeing if the tubes for the seat spring fixing match up as I believe there should be a through bolt which gives a fixing for the rear ‘guard.

Regards

D7/14 hybrid (4 speed with D7 crank etc.) on the road, D10 Bushman awaiting rebuilding.

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lbayorkie
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June 11, 2019 - 2:17 pm
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When I spoke to the frame straightener (in Manchester) he said he wanted the engine left in so that would be slightly less work. Even so Im starting to think it might be easier to scrap the frame and buy a new, roadworthy bike. This time from someone I know I can trust, such as a club member.

I think I could recover quite a bit by selling off the components.

 

Alan

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lbayorkie
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July 17, 2019 - 1:42 pm
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Spoke to John Phelan today, he doesnt straighten frames but can arrange for them to be done. When I told him it looked like my sea/chain stays have been widened and the wheel dropout was pointing upwards he said he he didnt want to know and suggested I didnt take the frame to him.

Just hope that another frame straightener will see it as too difficult.

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lbayorkie
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November 3, 2019 - 3:10 pm
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Had a lot of trouble finding a straightener who was prepared to look at my Bantam. In then end I found a firm in Malton that seemed happy to do the job. A 100 mile round trip was the only problem I thought, well I was wrong. This Bantam of mine seems to go from bad to worse. See attached image. 20191102_112406.jpg

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SpacedMarine
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November 3, 2019 - 3:43 pm
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Do you think its had an accident at some point?Seems to be something wierd going on there with all the issues it has?

What's 7/16 in mm again?

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stubaker58
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November 3, 2019 - 3:51 pm
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Ouch!!

D7/14 hybrid (4 speed with D7 crank etc.) on the road, D10 Bushman awaiting rebuilding.

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cocorico
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November 3, 2019 - 4:19 pm
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As said - ouch! What state was the right hand footrest in when you bought it? Any signs of damage?

1956 D3 running, lights to sort. 7 other bikes in the Barn. 1950 D1 engine now running.

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lbayorkie
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November 3, 2019 - 4:37 pm
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I am a bit of a novice and I trusted the seller who had spent a lifetime as a police motorcyclist before 'renovating' this Bantam. It was sold as roadworthy. Its a case of 'caveat emptor' but as you will agree he had excellent credentials. The damage to the end was caused by setting the bike up on the jig- the bottom bracket was used as the datum and had metal plugs (dont know what proper name is, mandrels perhaps?) driven into each side to hold the bike steady. We had noticed before we started work the holes were oval and this one was almost worn through at the bottom and there was a split from one side to the other but it was decided to try anyway.

In the end it was repaired by welding and it then went back on the jig. All extra time and money.

 

I

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swalsh58
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November 3, 2019 - 5:55 pm
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You have been so unfortunate with that machine. You do know that when it’s roadworthy though, almost everything has been sorted. I reckon it has to be a keeper!

Current bikes......1958 D5, a 77 Suzuki GT250 and a B175 almost ready for the road and a 76 Honda C90 in the workshop. A 1980 Honda CB400N now on the road and my everyday ride is a 2011 Harley Davidson Sportster. All bikes (except the D5) are now for sale...

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lbayorkie
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November 3, 2019 - 6:12 pm
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Thanks

I still need to find time to fit the mudguard, which was the problem that opened this can of worms in the first place. In addition I have an issue with the speedo drive which gets tighter as the wheel rotates, I need to have a think about why this is happening. 

Next job though is to prime the welds and areas where frame was heated to stop rust developing.

 

Alan

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lbayorkie
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November 30, 2019 - 8:03 pm
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Spent three hours in the garage this afternoon. I turned my attention to the rear wheel again because its still not right. 

The problem is that I have a spanner on the nut that holds the brake plate in place and another on the nut that hold the drive speedo in place. When I tighten the whole rear wheel just locks up. I have tried adding washers under the speedo but it does not good. The problem is therefore not that the drive is fouling the hub.

Now, my wheel is from a plunger and its been fitted with a 1/2 inch spindle (previous owner), so that may be part of the reason. I cant see much of  difference other than the flange with the cut outs for the speedo to locate into seems to be less deep than on an original 1/2 inch rigid hub. 

I have no idea what the consequences of the following are but one or both could be the reason for the problem and  I would really appreciate any feedback yo might have:

1) the spindle is fitted the wrong way round 

2) the spacer is for a plunger and not a 1/2 inch rigid

or comibnation of both.

Hope someone can help

 

Thanks

Alan

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lbayorkie
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December 1, 2019 - 12:08 pm
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Spent more time in garage this morning. Yesterday I added three washers to the spindle and everything still locked up. Today I tried 4 and it no longer locks, the wheel rotates fine. This means the thickness of washers is now 1 cm (which seems a lot). The new problem is that there is insufficient spindle left protruding when I fit the speedo drive.

I think the issue may be incompatibility of the driver and hub. I am told the wheel is from a plunger and the speedo drive (as it has a 1/2 inch hole) must be from an early D1 rigid. 

I was wondering if the spindle has been fitted the wrong way round- is this possible?

 

AlanWithout-drive-cropped.jpgWith-drive-1.jpg

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cocorico
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December 1, 2019 - 3:13 pm
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I don't think you should need anything like that number of washers! Have you looked at BSA Service Sheet N0 508? You should have access to it in the Members Area, it does mention a difference in thread lengths on earlier spindles which should be taken into account

The dogs on the speedo drive are supposed to locate in the slots in the hub, the 'outside' of the drive then just sits over the edge of the hub. The spacer is there (if necessary) to ensure that the dogs aren't pushed against the hub when the wheel is tightened in the frame. The 'outside' of the drive then just sits over the edge of the hub. Then when the wheel is rotated, you should see the cable drive socket rotating, but the speedo drive assembly held in position.

Here's a couple of pics of my D3, yours should be essentially the same.

20180819_135353.jpgD3-speedodrive.JPG

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1956 D3 running, lights to sort. 7 other bikes in the Barn. 1950 D1 engine now running.

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lbayorkie
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December 1, 2019 - 8:06 pm
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Ive looked at Service sheet 508 (and other material on the web site) and this is one reason I asked if it was actually possible to fit the spindle the wrong way round. By this I mean the 'fixed nut' on the wrong end of the spindle. 508 states 'on all rigid frame rear wheels the "fixed" nut is located on the shorter threaded end of the spindle'. I cant visualise what effect having the fixed nut on the wrong end of the spindle might have, but speculated this might be part of the problem and hoped someone who had an early D1 rigid might know.

Incidentally, even with the washers the cable drive socket was still turning, so if it wasnt for the lack of spindle sticking out of the drive it would, in theory provide me with a working speedo drive.

I do have an original D1 rear wheel and I fitted my speedo drive onto it and it didnt lock up, no matter how far I tightened the nuts, no need for any washers or spacers..Unfortunately I cant use this wheel for other reasons, but this must prove something?

Thanks for your input.

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cocorico
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December 2, 2019 - 8:12 am
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A thought has struck me (Ow!) - did you think that one of your problems may have been someone 'spreading' the rear frame in order to fit a wider tyre for trials use? If so, have you measured the distance between the wheel drop-outs and compared to the spindle length? Maybe grasping at straws now.

Alternatively, can you fit the rear wheel WITHOUT the speedo drive - using your washers as a spacer (see page 5 of the service sheet)? Not an ideal solution, but it may help to identify the problem, and you can always use a bike speedo if you want to.

1956 D3 running, lights to sort. 7 other bikes in the Barn. 1950 D1 engine now running.

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lbayorkie
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December 2, 2019 - 1:26 pm
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I took the frame to be straightened recently as you know. To be honest there was so much pushing and pulling going on over a 5 hour period I lost track of what dimensions had been checked and which hadn't. However the frame is now supposedly totally OK. It had better be, it cost £300 to put 'right'

I fitted my speedo drive to the 'original' D1 rigid wheel and offered it up to the wheel dropouts and it seemed to fit OK and of course the spindle had enough sticking out of the speedo side. This makes me thing the distance between dropouts is correct.

What I havent done is try to fit my botched wheel with the multiple washers between the dropouts, or if I did I cant remember. If it does fit then all I can think is that the hub of the botched wheel is narrower and needs the washers to pack it out to the right width. If this proves to be the case my inclination would be to put the washers outside the drive between it and the frame, but I already know if I do that the drive will bind. Strange.

This makes me think the problem is with the wheel itself and all I can think it that the 'fixed' nut is in the wrong place, which I think equates to the spindle being the wrong way around. I still have no idea why it makes the wheel lock up though.

My wife is away for the next week so I should have more time to play. Might even get it into the kitchen- the garage is very cold this time of year!

Alan

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lbayorkie
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December 3, 2019 - 1:21 pm
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I tried to fit the wheel with the 4 washers and it was too wide. Not really a surprise.

So, I have a wheel which doesnt bind only if I have 4 washers fitted inside the speedo drive, but is too wide to fit the frame and only has about 2mm of spindle protruding from the speedo drive nut. So basically cant be used. 

If you look at this another way, if I dont fit the washers it fits the frame perfectly. But it binds so cant be used either.

Clearly the washers shouldnt be needed in the first place so why is it without them the hub just locks up when I tighten the spindle bolts on the brake side and speedo drive nut on the other?

This is why I keep wondering about the spindle 'fixed nut'

When the rear wheel (apparently from a plunger) was converted the person who did it (Bantam John) removed the original bearings and spindle and replaced the spindle with a 1/2 inch one and also replaced the bearings with ones for a 1/2 inch spindle and machined collars to go around them so they were a good fit inside the hub. Really this should have been good enough and doesnt explain why I am getting this problem.

Anyone who has experience of the 'fixed nut' and the consequences of putting this in the wrong position please let me know!

Thanks

Alan

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