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A D3 Bantam Called Camilla
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Bob-B
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September 17, 2017 - 8:59 am
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Having removed everything holding the cases together I popped round to see Rex Caunt to get some advice on what would be causing the 2nd gear problem and buy a few more bits. He said it can only be one of a few things and he was happy to help. Much tapping later and the cases, which Rex reckoned should have more or less fallen apart, didn't.

So, I took the engine back home and used a bigger persuader on the various shafts until it did move.

Stuffer plate is missing and I think several spacers and washers.

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The crank is still stuck in the RH casing and refuses to budge from the bearing, maybe deliberately so to account for the missing spacers? Likewise the 3rd gear is stuck in the LH case, that seems to be being held in place by the external spacer, I'll probably just cut that off and machine a new one.

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Bit of wear here

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The rest looks pretty good to me

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Bob-B
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September 24, 2017 - 8:24 am
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Finally got the crank and 3rd gear out yesterday, the crank had some adhesive residue on it where it was fitted to the bearing, heat and a dead blow hammer soon fixed that! I've obtained one of the later selection plates with the stronger flag as recommended in the Bantam Tuning Manual, and a new cup, spring and ball bearing for the the selector ratchet. The cup was easy, if a bit of a fiddle to fit by slowly pressing it in with a small G-Clamp, but went in square and true.

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Then, while my responsible adult was out, it was time to clean the cases. I still need to remove the very crunchy RH bearings but that needs a a mandrel machining which I'll make up on Monday.

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not henpecked
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September 24, 2017 - 11:03 pm
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Hi Bob-B

I like the use of the 'domestic parts washer' whilst the 'responsible adult' was away from home! I note in your photos that you have the remains of some red hermetite on the casing edges. Did the 'parts washer' remove all traces and was there a significant improvement in the casing cleanliness.

The reason for the questions is that my B175 engine is in bits and although I have cleaned the crankcases thoroughly I was wondering if I too should use 'domestic parts washer' for the final cleaning process?

Don

B175, on the road. Honda XBR 500, and ....... Suzuki Burgman 200 scoot! Nicknamed "The hair dryer" - by me I hasten to add; & great storage under the seat when you get to your destination.

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Bob-B
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September 25, 2017 - 1:25 pm
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Hello Don, there was still a bit of hermetite on the clutch cover side afterwards, but most came off. The sealant used between the two halves is still there and will need more aggressive chemicals to remove.

The cases are much cleaner than they were, depends on what you want really. It's not as good as vapour blasting to get that really white aluminium look. Personally I prefer the cases looking their age but without the 60 years old grime on them so this does me just fine. What is strange is that when I do this when my better half IS around she notices an odour left in the dishwasher, when I do it when she's away she doesn't notice an odour at all...

I highly recommend the Persil all-in-one tablets although the alternative from Aldi is probably just as good!

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Bob-B
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September 27, 2017 - 1:02 pm
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The ground down woodruff key I found on disassembly has been niggling me, why wasn’t it just taken out? During my ride to work this morning an idea came to me.

Is it possible for the shaft to rotate relative to TDC? If this can happen, I think someone may have tried to fix this by grinding back enough of the woodruff key so that it wedged against the inside dia. of the cam when the screw was in place to try and prevent the cam rotating.

I’ve found a drawing to show that the keyway should be 27.5 degrees from TDC, I wasn’t going to take the crank apart fully, but, subject to measuring it when I get home tonight I suppose I need to check this.

Is my thinking wrong or is this possible?

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BSAdave
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September 28, 2017 - 7:39 am
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Yes it is possible for the shaft to be rotated into the wrong place, if you take a look at ** Please log in to view **

Hope this helps.

D1 D3 D5 D7 Suzuki TS 125, Yamaha YDS7 250

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Bob-B
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September 29, 2017 - 1:28 pm
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I've got measure more accurately to be certain, but I'm getting 19-20deg. If this is confirmed, when the shaft rotates is it toast or can it be stripped and fixed without going to electronic ignition?

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Piquet
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September 29, 2017 - 3:26 pm
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Maybe this will help

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I'm not a complete idiot ............................................ some parts are missing.

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mike p5xbx
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September 29, 2017 - 3:38 pm
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you can get the cranks rebuilt but finding someone that can do it may be difficult
your other option is to convert to battery/coil ignition and loctite the points cam in the correct place
with mag ignition both the flywheel and the points cam need to be correct

D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

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Bob-B
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October 2, 2017 - 1:03 pm
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Cheers both. I'm getting more suspicious about this crank now I've got a better measurement of the angle.

I note that the stroke of bantam enjuns is the same throughout with only the angle change from 27.5 to 17.5 degrees. I reckon there's a good chance that I have the later crank that's actually in good order... just not for my enjun! Am I right that the later cranks didn't have the plates on them? There's no mark to show where a plate was ever fitted to this one. Any other way to tell?

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jess steele
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October 2, 2017 - 3:30 pm
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A d5 or d7 crank would not be a straight swap for the d1 or d3 crank.The d5-d7 crank had a bigger little end bush.

It would be possible though to change the d3 conrod for the later d5-d7 rod or visa versa but then the d3 piston wouldn't fit the d5 conrod and the 175 barrels won't fit the d3 engine either.

I suppose someone could have turned out a special little end bush for the d5-d7 little end to take the d3 gudgeon pin and piston,but there again as you know the timing marks are different....

Ps the plates on the d1/d3 cranks were centre punched on in preened over sort of way,so you would see centre pop marks round the sides on the crank's flywheel,d5/d7 didn't have the plates fitted....

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Bob-B
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October 2, 2017 - 5:47 pm
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Thanks Jess. I'll take the piston off and measure the little end bush, sounds like that'll make it definite as to what I have here. If it is a later crank I'd rather swap it with someone who needs it rather than modify to make it work with my D3. I'll look again for the punch marks, fairly sure there aren't any but I'll check anyway.

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Bob-B
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October 2, 2017 - 8:16 pm
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Don't think I need to take the piston off to measure up (although it is going to have to come off). Looking at the exploded diagrams on Dranganfly and comparing to what I have, it looks very much like a later flywheel with the recesses on the inside faces and the conrod has needle bearing visible through the many lubrication holes on the big end. No marks at all from the plates having been fitted.

A couple of part numbers are visible, the conrod is 90-497 (with another marking of K163?), each half of the flywheel is marked with 90-608 and 90-808.

Am I right and do I need to start hunting for the right crank?

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jess steele
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October 2, 2017 - 8:58 pm
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The more i look at the timing side shoulder (where the oil seal fits)the more i'm inclined to agree that it could well be a d5-d7 crank,the chamfer on your crank is the same profile as the later crank,were as the d3 crank has very little chamfer as it houses the fan...

Here's a photo of a d3 crank,as you can see,you'd know if the plates had been fitted to your crank....hope-that-helps

4c626348098d0b4a19b7ead940d4130d5c5a6c5a_r.jpg

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stubaker58
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October 2, 2017 - 9:12 pm
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Hi,

That's some clever detective work!

Where did that degree marked paper come from?  Looks like a really useful thing to have access to.

regards. 

D7/14 hybrid (4 speed with D7 crank etc.) on the road, D10 Bushman awaiting rebuilding.

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Bob-B
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October 3, 2017 - 7:12 am
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Thanks again for the replies and the photo of the correct crank (not many really clear photos on the t'interweb that I can find) which have helped greatly. I definitely have the D5/7 crank, if anyone wants one and can swap for a D3 just let me know!

That fan thingy is missing too!

Time to start reassembling the gears and properly sorting the main stand while I phone round the usual suspects for spares.

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Bob-B
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October 9, 2017 - 6:06 pm
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Just pushed the gudgeon pin out. The pin measures 11.9mm OD and the ID of the little end, with the bush taken out, measures 16.56mm.

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The bush, which came out with just a finger push, looks a little bit home made to me with the lubrication holes being out of alignment.

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Do these measurements confirm that the conrod is D5/D7?

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mike p5xbx
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October 11, 2017 - 4:53 pm
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Looking at the parts book

D5/D7 Small end bush 90-1385, outside diameter 11/16 = 17.46mm
D1/D3 Small end bush 90-0130, outside diameter 15/32 = 11.8mm
so looks like it is a D7

D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

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Bob-B
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April 1, 2018 - 6:12 pm
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Feels like ages since I last did anything to get the bike running again... has been I suppose, but I now have a good crank and plenty of spares.

'Cos I bought an enjun from Rex!

All taken apart over the last day while wife and kid are away so I can bring it in the living room and do the job in the warm while having a drink or two.

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The engine had been stood with no head on so there was plenty of muck in the crank case and it wouldn't turn, just gummed up from where it had been sat for a while. The only problem was getting the chain off because the split link was in just the wrong place. An angle grinder sorted that, although it did cause a minor jumper fire. The crank came out yesterday evening and, barring a good clean up is perfectly good and has very clean bearing surfaces. The side plates have previously been welded, which I'm rather happy about, no future mishaps to be had from that! I've actually had the enjun for a couple of months, but the recent cold has kept me out of my shed.

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So, new bearings are currently in the freezer and cases will be popped in the oven after dinner so I can finally start on finishing.

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sunny
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April 2, 2018 - 3:10 pm
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Nice   to  see   you  back Bob     soon   be   ready   then  

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