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Plunger wheel adapted for 1/2" spindle- How???
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lbayorkie
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December 16, 2018 - 8:52 pm
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Without going into the detail I have a plunger rear wheel (designed for 9/16 spindle) which has been modified to fit a rigid frame. Basically the sealed bearings have had a collar made to fit inside them so that a 1/2" spindle fits snugly. 

I was looking at the bushing which fits between the bearing housing (brake plate distance piece, part 90-6095)) and brake plate and noticed that its a loose fit. This is because its intended for use with a 9/16" spindle. This means the brake plate doesnt have a stable surface to mate up to.

The hub for the 1/2" spindle doesnt use a distance piece, instead it uses a nut- part 90-5546 which seems to be a duplicate of the spindle nut fitted to the speedo side. 

So what are my options? Really I should be using a brake plate distance piece with an internal diameter to suit the 1/2" spindle- but I assume such a part doesnt exist. Therefore my only option is to use a spindle nut, part 90-5546 but there is no certainty that it will be the right length when screwed onto the spindle up to the bearing.

Has anyone else had experience of adapting a plunger wheel for use with a 1/2" spindle, or does anyone have any tips?

 

Alan- Over-size-distance-piece.jpg

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GlenAnderson
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December 16, 2018 - 9:35 pm
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You need someone with a lathe to knock you up a small collar, 1/2” ID, 9/16” OD and fractionally thinner than your existing distance piece. 

If you weren’t so far away I’d suggest you popped round and I’d do it for you, but Dover is quite a hike from Yorkshire. I’m sure someone nearer can help. 

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Blue Heeler
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December 16, 2018 - 11:17 pm
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As above...If you can`t find someone local,the two remaining options I can think of that will allow you to utilise that wheel,are post the wheel off to someone with a lathe,that way you`ll be sure to get the spacers made to an exacting fit.Or measure up yourself and provide details to a lathe man to have some spacers made up and posted to you.

I`ve sent similar bulky and even heavier items(than a rear wheel), via My Hermes at around a tenner within the last couple of months.Just wrap really well,because we call them by another name here in East Lincs.Myself and mates have received many a damaged item,admittedly poorly packaged though.

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lbayorkie
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December 16, 2018 - 11:37 pm
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Thanks to you both for the advice. Interesting neither of you think the spindle nut suggestion is worth trying- this is the correct solution for a 1/2 inch spindle, but the correct solution for the wheel/hub is the spacer!

As far as making up a spacer goes the depth of the spacer is critical, too short and the brake plate will rub and too long and the brake plate will sit too pround and apart from dirt ingress will reduce the distance between the plate and frame. 

Would it not be as simple as asking for the current spacer to be copied in all respects apart from internal diameter? What was the need for a fractionally thinner spacer?

Finding jobbing engineers is not easy these days, frustrating because this is such an easy item to turn on a lathe.

 

Alan

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two-stroke
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December 17, 2018 - 12:38 am
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contakt george

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Blue Heeler
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December 17, 2018 - 9:48 am
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lbayorkie said
Thanks to you both for the advice. Interesting neither of you think the spindle nut suggestion is worth trying- this is the correct solution for a 1/2 inch spindle, but the correct solution for the wheel/hub is the spacer!

As far as making up a spacer goes the depth of the spacer is critical, too short and the brake plate will rub and too long and the brake plate will sit too pround and apart from dirt ingress will reduce the distance between the plate and frame. 

Would it not be as simple as asking for the current spacer to be copied in all respects apart from internal diameter? What was the need for a fractionally thinner spacer?

Finding jobbing engineers is not easy these days, frustrating because this is such an easy item to turn on a lathe.

 

Alan  

Yes that might work ...but only if the mods already done have not re-positioned the bearing slightly! You are working off the bearing`s outer face of its inner race....obviously.As you`ve pointed out,as long as the brake back plate doesn`t scuff on the drum outer edge,Bob`s yer aunt.

You could buy or make yourself a depth gauge out of a straight,thick piece of wire/plastic etc..

Your first query re the nut has gone over my head a bit.If you are suggesting turning down the nut shoulders on the 9/16" example you`ve bought,to allow fitment in the frame,where 1/2" ones are designed to fit,then this will weaken said nuts....and I`m sure you don`t want to show the frame a flat file.

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lbayorkie
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December 17, 2018 - 1:54 pm
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If you look at the drawings for the rigid you will see the D1 rigid rear wheel uses a nut in place of the spacer this is part 90-5546 which I noticed is the same part number as the spindle nut on the speedo side. Im unsure whether to use a custom made spacer -which is correct for the wheel I have, or the spindle nut- which is correct for the spindle that's fitted.

 

Spindle-jpg.jpg

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Blue Heeler
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December 17, 2018 - 11:01 pm
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Ah I see,those spacer-nuts.Are you worried about a gap around the circumference of the shouldered area?If the chap who refurbed your hub fitted sealed bearings,then an ingress of brake shoe dust from the drum etc shouldn`t hurt.....just as modern sealed wheel bearings are exposed to the elements.If he fitted the old-style open bearings then you don`t want a gap, this was originally sealed using a felt washer that sat on the spacer shoulder to prevent muck getting into the open bearings,that were lubed via the hub centre grease nipple. 

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Mags 1
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December 17, 2018 - 11:08 pm
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Couldn't you simply buy some new bearings with the correct inside mesurement? Or am I missing something here....

Four now on the road and at least several in bits.

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lbayorkie
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December 18, 2018 - 1:18 pm
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Blue Heeler, I was really just pointing out that using the nut shown in the diagram was an alternative to getting a 1/2 internal diameter spacer made and hoping you or some other member might have had experience of using these in a hub designed for a 9/6 spindle.  I can see that the sealed bearings wouldnt be affected by ingress of brake dust etc, my point was how important it is that the lip on the brake plate fits closely to the hub, obviously not touching but if the gap is too great there will be water and all sorts getting onto the brakes. therefore when making a spacer from scratch its going to be really important that the spacer isnt too long and getting it just right is not going to be easy.

Mags1, Its a bit confusing. I have two wheels the one we are talking about here is the one that already had collars made to fit inside the bearings so the sealed bearings now fit inside the plunger hub and accommodate a 1/2" spindle. The issues are now about other problems, specifically the spacer or nut that fits between the bearing and brake plate.

Alan

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GlenAnderson
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December 18, 2018 - 3:18 pm
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You are overthinking things. All you need is a spacer, 1/2” id, 9/16” od and a fraction thinner than the brake plate, just enough to keep things concentric. 

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Blue Heeler
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December 18, 2018 - 3:25 pm
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Not had to do that exact mod myself,but plenty similar.

Place straightedge across exposed brake drum after you`ve fitted the threaded spacer through the brake drum,against the bearing.Measure between outer face of spacer and underside of straightedge.Also measure the inner protrusion of the back-plate securing nut and take this away from the first measurement.Then add say 2mm to that sum and make up a washer of that thickness.Would save you mucking about with getting spacers made up....yes?

2mm should be enough clearance and don`t forget the back-plate has a flange that sits over the brake drum to offer basic protection against ingress of water/road grime.Go for slightly less clearance if everything is straight,but some of those early back-plates can be a little warped I`ve found.

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Blue Heeler
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December 18, 2018 - 3:31 pm
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GlenAnderson said
You are overthinking things. All you need is a spacer, 1/2” id, 9/16” od and a fraction thinner than the brake plate, just enough to keep things concentric.   

Original spacers are threaded,so would need someone with some old taps if getting replacements made up.

Just measure and fit washers to take up any slack.When its all tightened up,it will be perfectly secure and safe.

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Mags 1
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December 18, 2018 - 7:23 pm
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GlenAnderson said
You are overthinking things. All you need is a spacer, 1/2” id, 9/16” od and a fraction thinner than the brake plate, just enough to keep things concentric.   

I doubt a piece of tubing with a wall thickness of only a thirty second of an inch will last long!

Four now on the road and at least several in bits.

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lbayorkie
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December 18, 2018 - 8:23 pm
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I'm getting confused now. I dont think theres anything wrong with purchasing part number 90-5546- this should be available fairly readily as its basically a spindle nut?

As an alternative I could get a spacer made, exactly the same dimensions as the one I already have- just with a half inch inside diameter?

The latter is not really my preferred option, simply because its harder to get a part made than buy one (90-5546) 

As I said I really wanted advice from someone who had previously converted a plunger wheel to take a 1/2" spindle who could explain the realtive merits of each 'solution'.

As far as keeping the brake plate flange clear of the hub I suppose I can always add a washer. In fact I already purchased one to fit the 1/2" spindle but its too thick so the brake plate stand too proud and so far I havent been able to find a thinner one- yet!

Alan

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GlenAnderson
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December 18, 2018 - 9:53 pm
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Mags 1 said

I doubt a piece of tubing with a wall thickness of only a thirty second of an inch will last long!  

Why? It’s not doing any work, it’s just holding things concentric. The original securing hardware will be carrying any loads. 

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lbayorkie
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December 20, 2018 - 7:59 am
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Glen, I understand what you mean. The tubing would just be inserted into the spacer to make the internal diameter fit the spindle. I have no idea how hard it would be to source tubing of exactly the right diameter  but suspect it might be easier to get a new spacer turned up.  If the nut spacer shown in the diagram works even better but I need to get hold of that part. As i said ideally someone who has done this conversion will chip in with their practical experience. Alan

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mikef
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December 21, 2018 - 7:01 pm
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Hi Alan.
     I have never done this conversion, but it sounds like you need a spacer. If you PM me the exact dimensions of the spacer that you require ie. ID, OD and length, and your address I should be able to make one, then post it. Sounds like 1/2 hours work. Unfortunately I am just about to go away for Christmas but would do it on my return before the new year.

Mike.

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lbayorkie
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December 24, 2018 - 1:00 pm
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Thanks a lot, that's a very kind offer. I will let you have the dimensions as soon as I can. May not be before New Year but Im not in a desperate rush. Have a good Christmas and I will be in touch.

 

Alan

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lbayorkie
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January 10, 2019 - 1:17 pm
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Happy New Year.

Thanks again for your kind offer. 

In the end I had it made locally. Turns out my employer had a lathe in their maintenance room at another of our sites.

 

Alan

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