A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
Guest

Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
New Replacement Carburettor for D1/D3 Models
Avatar
Lone Wolf
The Black Country
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 1351
Member Since:
January 24, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
21
February 12, 2021 - 12:42 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Wotcha.

For just one shilling you can have a sparkling clean carb . . . .even if the product does have a dodgy name these days. 🙂

 

^..^

Avatar
Sponge
Lancashire (A chip shop somewhere near Preston)
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 559
Member Since:
November 6, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
22
February 12, 2021 - 7:58 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Very popular with soldiers wives.....you can still get it in Africa !!

Lone Wolf said
Wotcha.

For just one shilling you can have a sparkling clean carb . . . .even if the product does have a dodgy name these days. 🙂

 

  

Avatar
not henpecked
Near Junction 11 of M42 Leicestershire
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 274
Member Since:
February 7, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
23
February 12, 2021 - 12:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi All

I like all the banter - keep it coming. Just as a matter of interest I have built up Mazak with an aluminium type solder on a handle bar lever to stop it rocking. The one on the right is how the lever base came and the one on the left is after I had built it up with the solder and the filed it to suit.

The solder has a low melting of about 300 C and is specifically for Mazak. I found a supplier and bought it off the dreaded Ebay. Be aware it is not Lumiweld, Technoweld or something similar which have a melting points of about 400 C. I have used Technoweld with success.

0656A.jpg

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

B175, on the road. Honda XBR 500, and ....... Suzuki Burgman 200 scoot! Nicknamed "The hair dryer" - by me I hasten to add; & great storage under the seat when you get to your destination.

Avatar
sunny
Norfolk
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 1812
Member Since:
January 9, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
24
February 12, 2021 - 12:35 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

i  dont  think  thats  MAZAK  it  looks  like  and has a  CRISLE     & SPARKERLY     B & Q   did    do   lumaweld  

Avatar
DaveP.
Tutbury, Burton upon Trent.
Second Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 21
Member Since:
December 26, 2019
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
25
February 12, 2021 - 8:09 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Try Surf, oh been told no Surf until the Tide comes in.

Avatar
not henpecked
Near Junction 11 of M42 Leicestershire
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 274
Member Since:
February 7, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
26
February 12, 2021 - 8:17 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi All

The photo I posted is the clutch lever mount and is definitely made of Mazak. The lever mount was chrome plated as per the unmodified one on the right hand side of the picture. What I did was to remove the chrome plating using a Dremel with sanding and grind stones and then building up using the Mazak suitable solder.

I recently bought a combined throttle an front brake lever mount second-hand off Ebay. The bottom clamp had a split and when I tried to repair it with Lumiweld it started to distort! I bought the low temperature Mazak solder and with loads of patience I did a successful repair. I then removed all the chrome mechanically and polished it up. The repair cannot be seen and what I also did was to fill in a small flaw on the lever mount where the cable enters, photos attached. The first shows the hole, the 2nd the Mazak solder gobbed on, the 3rd filed and polished off.

For the record I'm not sure whether I would use the solder on something a precision as a carb but it may help others to know repairs can be made to Mazak where less critical.

IMG_0650.JPGIMG_0651.JPGIMG_0655.JPG

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

B175, on the road. Honda XBR 500, and ....... Suzuki Burgman 200 scoot! Nicknamed "The hair dryer" - by me I hasten to add; & great storage under the seat when you get to your destination.

Avatar
GlenAnderson
Dover
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 406
Member Since:
August 27, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
27
February 12, 2021 - 10:47 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hello all.

Well, the two 523 carb bodies I'd taken a punt on arrived today. Two different sellers, neither of them particularly dear. One of them was damaged in exactly the same place, and looked quite worn in the slide area. Fortunately they're a business seller and accept returns, so that went straight back to them in the post this afternoon.

The other one was both undamaged, and also appeared unworn, although had obviously been fitted to something at some point not too long past as it still bore a faint whiff of fuel. So that'll get cleaned up and properly checked over the next few days.

Thanks for the advice and comments. laugh

Avatar
cocorico
Central France
Top Gear User
Site Member
Forum Posts: 3422
Member Since:
June 23, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
28
February 15, 2021 - 8:11 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Number6 said
Meanwhile, I'm researching Dell'orto's .....  

Here is a PHBG19BS on a D1 to encourage you. A direct spigot mounting version is also available, eg ** Please log in to view **

The letters B, S, A and D refer to supple mount, sinister (left hand) adjustment, direct mount and dexter (right hand) adjustment. S or D don't really matter on a Bantam, just match the venturi size to the Bantam..

IMG_2471.JPGIMG_2470.JPG

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
Number6
Lincolnshire
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 495
Member Since:
January 18, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
29
February 15, 2021 - 12:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Yes thanks. laugh Also must be a 2-stroke type - there are quite a few differences compared to an otherwise identical 4-stroke version; main jet, atomiser tube and needle are all different. There's obviously a very good reason and I can't offhand remember what it is, somewhere I should have a Dell'Orto carb tuning manual which possibly explains it (as it does for most everything else). 2-stroke motor is sucking twice as often?

I'm used to Dellortos as they were used on all Moto Guzzi's, so the set-up is very familiar. E.g. the "choke", isn't, it's a bypass starting system - a separate air passage with a miniature slide in it and the starter jet underneath.

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

Avatar
cocorico
Central France
Top Gear User
Site Member
Forum Posts: 3422
Member Since:
June 23, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
30
February 15, 2021 - 4:41 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Number6 said
...I'm used to Dellortos ...  

Yes, pretty simple. The tuning manual  is available on their site as a download, I think. I used a 19mm one as I had it available. Atomiser AU262 (that's the protruding  2T one), choke jet 60, main jet 90, idle jet 55, needle W, 2nd notch, throttle valve 30. The throttle valves (ie slides) are a close fit in an AMAL carb, cable fitting is the same. Different cutaways are available and jets are cheap too.

Fired up easily, but I never got round to fine tuning it.

Avatar
Mike E.
R.C.T. South Wales
Second Gear User
Site Member
Forum Posts: 44
Member Since:
October 8, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
31
February 15, 2021 - 6:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

I

cocorico said

Here is a PHBG19BS on a D1 to encourage you. A direct spigot mounting version is also available, eg ** Please log in to view **

The letters B, S, A and D refer to supple mount, sinister (left hand) adjustment, direct mount and dexter (right hand) adjustment. S or D don't really matter on a Bantam, just match the venturi size to the Bantam..

IMG_2471.JPGIMG_2470.JPG  

I like your engine stand, will have to weld one up for future work. cool

1954 Vintage 150cc D3 Major - Direct Lighting - Plunger

Avatar
Number6
Lincolnshire
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 495
Member Since:
January 18, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
32
February 16, 2021 - 2:34 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

cocorico said

Yes, pretty simple. The tuning manual  is available on their site as a download, I think. I used a 19mm one as I had it available. Atomiser AU262 (that's the protruding  2T one), choke jet 60, main jet 90, idle jet 55, needle W, 2nd notch, throttle valve 30. The throttle valves (ie slides) are a close fit in an AMAL carb, cable fitting is the same. Different cutaways are available and jets are cheap too.

Fired up easily, but I never got round to fine tuning it.  

Ta - I was looking at Eurocarb site - a couple going cheap on eBay, but I'm wary of second-hands and bodge-ups - there's another scooter spares type site has them too, but I'm thinking don't faff about and try to scrimp, go to the kosher supplier, Eurocarb I'm sure I've bought from before (and often recommended on the Moto Guzzi forums), so should all be good. Communication is good too which always helps. Limited range of venturi sizes, so I'm going for the 2T 15mm AS (very close to the stock Amal 5/8"), and a Malossi foam screw-on filter.

Onwards! laugh

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

Avatar
GlenAnderson
Dover
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 406
Member Since:
August 27, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
33
February 16, 2021 - 3:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Do we know if there’s a Dellorto+filter assembly that will fit on a D1/D3 and allow retention of the toolbox? The main reason I’m rebuilding a D3 engine for my D1 rather than going the whole hog and fitting a 175 is because I don’t want to lose the toolbox. 

Avatar
cocorico
Central France
Top Gear User
Site Member
Forum Posts: 3422
Member Since:
June 23, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
34
February 16, 2021 - 5:23 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

If you go for an AS version, it will sit on the stub as an AMAL does. There is a huge variety of small filters available over here, together with angled tubes which can give a bit more space. The AS needs the nylon insert removing to fit on the stub, it then protrudes 70 mm from the cylinder, which could be coupled to something ** Please log in to view ** if you have a total of about 160 mm between cylinder and toolbox.

Dellorto-AS.JPG

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
cocorico
Central France
Top Gear User
Site Member
Forum Posts: 3422
Member Since:
June 23, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
35
February 17, 2021 - 2:30 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

I've just found a spare conical filter I bought for some other project. Here are pictures of a solid mount and supple mount carb on the engine. The solid mount takes up quite a lot less room, which the air filter promptly occupies - needs a  bit of lateral thinking.

Solid-mount.JPGSupple-mount.JPG

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
Number6
Lincolnshire
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 495
Member Since:
January 18, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
36
February 18, 2021 - 4:31 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

GlenAnderson said
Do we know if there’s a Dellorto+filter assembly that will fit on a D1/D3 and allow retention of the toolbox? The main reason I’m rebuilding a D3 engine for my D1 rather than going the whole hog and fitting a 175 is because I don’t want to lose the toolbox.   

I've gone for a Malossi red foam screw-on one, I've got them both (from Eurocarb), the whole assembly is roughly 10mm longer than original (Amal 361/1 + 'air cleaner/strangler') this sounds like could be a problem BUT, the little knob for the strangler sticks out further, so all-in-all, are nearly the same length overall. If toolbox fitting is too tight or not possible, plan B is to stagger it outwards and rearwiards slightly on little brackets. Remains to be seen what happens.

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

Avatar
Number6
Lincolnshire
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 495
Member Since:
January 18, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
37
February 18, 2021 - 5:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Photo for comparison - (taken just now)

Carbs-2518-vs-361_1.jpg

Notes:

1. As cocorico says the standard Bantam (D1) throttle cable fits and works - albeit the nipple is a little proud below the slide, but pretty sure not an issue.

2. The Dellorto normally has a black plastic float 'bowl' fitted. I thought it may be prudent to have a drain plug. So I then bought a metal float bowl, drain plug and fibre washer. I don't know yet whether the drain plug can be removed and replaced in situ. It will require a 16mm spanner, or 5/8".

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

Avatar
Stoo63
GLASGOW
Area Rep
Forum Posts: 1239
Member Since:
April 19, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
38
February 18, 2021 - 10:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Whilst I can appreciate all the technical reasons for changing carb, that pic is worth a thousand words. A beautiful piece of art set beside a bland, ugly brute of a thing that wouldn't turn heads in a chinese scooter shop. But, different stokes..../ beauty is in the eye of.../one man's....

 '55 D3 Battery; '58 Square Four (project); '59 D1 direct lighting plunger; '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E; '91 GTR 1000;  '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

Avatar
GlenAnderson
Dover
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 406
Member Since:
August 27, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
39
February 18, 2021 - 10:25 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Thanks for the comparison picture,  very helpful. 👍 At the moment I think it’s a bit too much of a visually modern item for my personal taste though, but I would like to see it fitted and would very much be interested in how you get on with it. 

Having jumped in and out of several rabbit holes in the forty plus years I’ve had the D1, in trying to decide the best way forward with it, I have already tried the following:

Stock D1 with direct lights and ignition. Just woeful. Unrideable, really, even in the distant past of the mid 1980s. Ok as a toy, but back then I actually wanted to be able to use it. 

A stock D7 engine and carb, together with coil ignition and a battery. Went well enough for the cycle parts, and was generally reliable enough, but finding room for a decent sized battery and a monobloc + air cleaner was a challenge and I never got an aesthetic solution I was happy with. Probably did the most miles like that though, and it was certainly useable. Would cruise at 50 all day and I rode it from Canterbury to Plymouth several times in the first year I was at Uni. Was a (generally) reliable 2nd bike for a decade or so with that engine. 

A D7 with a D14/4 head and barrel, plus concentric carb and bellmouth,  with direct lighting and magneto ignition. A bit easier to package, but still no room for the standard toolbox. Went way too well for the lightweight rigid frame to be pleasant to ride. Fun yes, definitely, but not really very nice.

Back to stock. Oh god, I’d forgotten how woeful it was. Even my more mature riding style still couldn’t get on with the lack of urge and I simply never rode it. My C90 was way more useable. 

A tuned D1 engine. Peaky, inflexible, ok if you ragged it, but generally unpleasant. 

Back to the stock D1 engine, but with a skimmed head and a Rex Caunt ignition and battery lighting setup. Bearable, as a country lanes potterer. Just. Still too slow, but not quite the utter liability the completely stock setup is. Lights very good, but I use the bike so little the battery is always flat. Batteries on D1s always look like an afterthought (probably because they are). 

My current mission is to try and strike a happy medium between the previous efforts, and have something that at first glance is stock looking, certainly much more so than the D7 route, but that goes better than the original D1. So I have a set of D3 cases, modified to lubricate the mains from the gearbox oil like the D5 onwards engines, a D3 barrel with a .020” overbore and a Todd head. I shall pay close attention to matching port openings and to make sure that things are smooth and unobstructed. The port dimensions are already more generous than the 125, so I’m concentrating more on blueprinting than on tuning. I also have a set of late D7/D10 layshaft gears, which will raise 1st and 2nd without affecting top, so 2nd should be more comfortable around town at 30, and the huge gap between it and top should be closed up enough to make it less of an obstacle. Notionally, a stock D3 is 5.4 horsepower, and I’m hoping to be up a bit on that with my modest tweaks. If I can see something around 6 or 7 bhp I’d think it would be about right. I’m ditching the battery in favour of a chunky capacitor, which should easily be hidden under the tank or in the headlight shell. Hopefully I’ll end up with something that goes almost as well as it did with the 8 bhp D7 engine, but that looks much more like a stock machine. 

Avatar
Number6
Lincolnshire
Top Gear User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 495
Member Since:
January 18, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
40
February 19, 2021 - 9:07 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Stoo63 said
Whilst I can appreciate all the technical reasons for changing carb, that pic is worth a thousand words. A beautiful piece of art set beside a bland, ugly brute of a thing that wouldn't turn heads in a chinese scooter shop. But, different stokes..../ beauty is in the eye of.../one man's....  

I've seen worse. laugh

I think it's quite elegant in its own way.

It would be interesting to be able to compare both carbs on the road. When I had my D3 years ago somebody gave me a bottom end for spares, D5 - D7? Had been "blown up", or seized, no head or barrel. But did come with a concentric carb which had a black plastic screw-on float bowl. I ultimately tried it on the D3, and it improved the "performance" noticably. Nothing was changed on the carburettor I just bunged it on as it was. Pretty sure the D3's original was wearing out - there was the odd problem - never got any new parts for it. My current 361 has now mostly new parts, so  should be OK. Or not. What I like about the Dellorto however is it's adjustable for idle mixture and throttle stop, i.e. tickover.

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 223

Currently Online: sunny, DaveP.
14 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

cocorico: 3422

Cornish Rooster: 3105

bart: 2666

Blue Heeler: 2520

David Dale: 2346

Sprung Chicken: 2266

Piquet: 1968

sunny: 1812

Mags 1: 1799

mike p5xbx: 1653

Newest Members:

Forum Stats:

Groups: 9

Forums: 48

Topics: 11179

Posts: 98947

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1432

Members: 3296

Moderators: 0

Admins: 3

Administrators: Bantam-Super, JMD, Stoo63