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Help! Where to buy WIPAC 55 Ignition spares?
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gtowndualsport
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February 4, 2019 - 2:42 am
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I have bought three different pattern points that said that they were for D1 - D7 Wipac 55 systems. None fit properly! I can't keep buying points that don't work. Who stocks the proper Wipac ignition spares? Specifically, where do you buy your points, condensers, and ignition coils? Names of stockist or direct links to known proper spares please.

These are for a 1950 D1 and 1954 D3, both Wipac 55 direct lighting.

Thanks,

John

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cocorico
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February 4, 2019 - 8:07 am
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Can't help with points, the ones I have are still the originals. As for condensers, I make mine up from a couple of high voltage ceramic discs capacitors of 100nF each, soldered in parallel, like these (though 100nF is currently out of stock). For coils, I think I'd try Rex Caunt, Bournemouth Bantams or one of the other 'Good Guys'.

1956 D3 in the back of the barn with 6 other bikes ahead of it!

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sunny
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February 4, 2019 - 9:38 am
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up grade your  bantam  to a D7  coil under  the          seat         electrics    it  will help  its a  beter spark   ,,,  now a days you  need  to  see  wot points are  like  wen you get them    try   ** Please log in to view **          or  get back   to me   

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Blue Heeler
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February 4, 2019 - 12:44 pm
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John, Do you have the original points? How about drawing around the whole profile and outlining the fixing holes ....then superimpose drawing onto the non-std sets you`ve acquired and work out where you have to drill? Has been quite a lot of coverage on various c/b points,usually originally for Dagenham Dustbins etc being requisitioned for Bantams.

Blue

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gtowndualsport
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February 4, 2019 - 1:35 pm
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Blue,

Great idea. I don't know why I hadn't thought of that. I spent a few hours working on the 1954 D3 engine this weekend. I got the engine from a guy that said it had been sitting for several decades. I was amazed at how well it ran for an engine that has been sitting for that long. I took the outer covers off and cleaned everything. The seals looked good. The cylinder was clean and smooth. The piston looked good. Put it back together with some fresh oil in it. Put a 361 carb on it.

I put on new pattern ignition coil, condenser, HT lead, plug, and plug cap. The pattern points that I bought wouldn't fit. I took an old Wipac set off of a parts engine that I had.  Tried to fire it up. No love. Started trouble shooting. Fuel seemed okay. Points gapped properly. Plug gapped properly. No spark at the plug. Traded out condenser for old Wipac. It had a good spark at plug once, then nothing no matter how many times you kicked it. Now I'm thinking that it is the condenser or plug wire. I ran a stranded copper wire straight from the coil to eliminate the HT lead and plug cap. No spark. Went to parts store and bought a new condenser. Put the 1950s Wipac ignition coil on. Beautiful spark at plug every kick!

Hooked everything up and it ran great first kick every time. Here is what I learned from all this. Wipac ignition parts seem to be pretty good. My 70 year old Wipac bits worked better than the new pattern parts. I put an electronic ignition (Bones CDI) on a 1966 D7 engine. It runs fine. This is for a trials engine. I would like to keep it original. I want the extra weight of the flywheel to help with torque. I believe that the HT lead and cap were overwhelming the coil and condenser. Once I put the copper wire straight to the plug, everything worked great, even with the ancient coil.

I would like to get a set of NOS Wipac ignition parts. I found a NOS condenser. I would like to have a good original Wipac ignition coil and points set as spares in case mine give up the ghost.

What type of non-resistor spark plug wire and cap can I get?     

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Blue Heeler
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February 4, 2019 - 1:46 pm
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Sounds like you are nearly there, once you`ve got a decent condenser and replaced your plug cap.

Here`s just one of the threads on the subject....** Please log in to view **    

Blue

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richard hyatt
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February 4, 2019 - 6:28 pm
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hi there,

NGK make a non-resistive plug cap

 

other plug caps are likely to have a 5k or 10k resistor inbuilt for suppression purposes

I then use solid copper HT lead and solder a tag onto 1 end and then screw the HT cap onto other end

 

from memory the GREEN SPARK PLUG COMPANY have these

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Mags 1
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February 4, 2019 - 7:18 pm
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** Please log in to view **

Welcome, I use lawn mower crimp on type spark plug connectors, only a couple of quid each with vat etc. there's a small spike inside where new cable lays, you squeeze both together and spike penetrates into cable, you can also strip some insulation back and lay HT wire inside connector, a squirt ofr WD40 or similar into rubber connector ensures you can still get cap over connector. Use the thinner type Ht cable or you will have problems when you try to get the car size stuff and any other wires inside rubber grommet.

** Please log in to view **

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Four now on the road and at least several in bits.

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GCOBBY
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February 5, 2019 - 4:32 pm
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I use a small brass cup hook which is screwed directly into the wire of the HT LEAD ,held in place by the plug nut .Works OK for me .

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GlenAnderson
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February 5, 2019 - 10:26 pm
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Wipac ignition components were pretty much the bottom end of the market in the 40s/50s. All of BSA’s higher spec bikes used Lucas stuff, and a Lucas equipped Bantam was a significant sum more expensive than the Wipac version. They were barely adequate then, and for the pattern parts available today to make NOS bits look good quality says more about how bad the new stuff is. 

I’ve owned my ‘53 D1 for over 50 years now, and I can honestly say that the Wipac electrical system has been, without a doubt, the single biggest obstacle to enjoying the bike. I fitted one of Rex Caunt’s CDI systems about six or seven years ago and it transformed the bike. Better starting, better running, better lights. 

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Bola
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April 15, 2019 - 10:56 pm
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Very interesting post, 

I didn’t think too muck into plug cap’s and HT leads, thought they were all the same until I started getting trouble with my newly restored D3.

Everything standard on my D3. I set points gap, timing everything spot on and was getting lovey spark. Went down the road and it feels “flat” in high Revs. Feels like I’m loosing power only with the higher rev range. Fuel ok (20:1 mix for running in) and seams to be getting to the carb fine.

Got home and had a play with the needle position and the thing would not start!! (Engine was warm after 5min ride).

Plug off and noticed spark was not as bright!

Any ideas? I also want to keep it standard but would like it to run well and start! (Hot or cold)

For best spark should I have:

1. non-resistive plug

2. non-resistive plug cap

3. Copper HT lead

 

Condenser is new, not sure what NOS condenser is?

 

More help welcome 🙏 

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sunny
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April 16, 2019 - 1:14 am
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 the  brown ,  green , & blue  intenal  HT coils    for an 018" thow gap   are  all  LOW  power  coils  NO  KIND OF  resistance   PLUG , PLUG CAP or  HT LEAD  IS  USED   ,the  only  noral  power coils   are  in black  plastic  and  can  feed  a  025" thow  S Plug  gap   & need  resistance   thay  are  no longer  on  the  market    ,,   condensers    have a shelf  life   i only  use  new     , DAMP   can  cach   us  out 

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gtowndualsport
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April 16, 2019 - 3:12 am
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Bola said
Very interesting post, 

I didn’t think too muck into plug cap’s and HT leads, thought they were all the same until I started getting trouble with my newly restored D3.

Everything standard on my D3. I set points gap, timing everything spot on and was getting lovey spark. Went down the road and it feels “flat” in high Revs. Feels like I’m loosing power only with the higher rev range. Fuel ok (20:1 mix for running in) and seams to be getting to the carb fine.

Got home and had a play with the needle position and the thing would not start!! (Engine was warm after 5min ride).

Plug off and noticed spark was not as bright!

Any ideas? I also want to keep it standard but would like it to run well and start! (Hot or cold)

For best spark should I have:

1. non-resistive plug

2. non-resistive plug cap

3. Copper HT lead

 

Condenser is new, not sure what NOS condenser is?

 

More help welcome    

Bola,

First, NOS is new old stock, an original spare saved all these years.

I would start by making sure that I had a good, properly gapped, non-resistor copper core spark plug. My bikes seem to like the cheaper Champion plugs over the expensive NGKs. I foul NGKs by the box, but I've used the same cheap Champion for the last two trials. The NGKs seem to be very susceptible to fouling with heavy mix.

To eliminate the plug wire and cap as the problem, take some copper wire and go directly from your ignition coil to your spark plug. Check the spark. If it gets stronger, you're losing current through the spark plug lead or cap. If it is the same, you need to check the capacitor. That's easy and cheap to replace. If it's not the capacitor, it's the only thing left in the circuit, the coil.

See if that help and let us know how it goes. These old bikes are a challenge to keep running, but when they do it is an absolute joy.

John

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Bola
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April 16, 2019 - 8:24 am
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Thanks guys,

This bike has challenged me all through the restoration, and continues! i see the "tinkering" is all part of the fun but i would like to ride it now and get home without walking.

Can you suggest a good champion plug? I have new NGK plugs ordered that should be for high temp running (B6HS & Iridium plug) Will the plug gap need to be checked? assumed these come pre set and are not adjustable?

 

Cheers

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sunny
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April 16, 2019 - 9:27 am
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sounds like the  HT coil   ,,  crankshaft and  oilit  bush   and  carb  seting   need  checking      , Did  the  engine  get   a  stripdown   service  

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Bola
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April 16, 2019 - 10:58 am
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Had new HT coil, and condenser but Original cam. Engine and carb has been stripped and new parts where needed.

looking for Oilite bush i came across this: ** Please log in to view **

I can't see where this stator bush goes, will it help? 

Engine.JPG

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sunny
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April 16, 2019 - 11:22 am
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the   oilite  bush  is  cast     into  the  genator   face plate     item  number  80  in the parts  photo it   sits  on the  end  of the  crankshaft  behind  the  cam      the  runing gap  between  the  two   is 0005 "  thow          ,,,  thats  1/2  a  thow  ,, oil  all moving  parts  on plate  80  and  the  oilite  bush and  the  felt   pad

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Bola
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April 16, 2019 - 11:54 am
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Gen2.JpgLooks like i need one.

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gtowndualsport
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April 16, 2019 - 1:31 pm
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Bola said
Gen2.JpgLooks like i need one.  

I know a couple of good places to find spares like that. If you want the sites, PM me.

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Bola
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April 21, 2019 - 5:36 pm
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Oilite bush fitted cheers John, what a difference. Pulling now in the higher rev range. Found out I was measuring points gap in mm and not inch! This might also of helped!

Thanks guys. other issues now with running when engine is hot, will create new topic 

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