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Going Nuts here
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paullav83
Northern Ireland
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November 25, 2020 - 9:15 am
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This may have been covered already. If so I apologize, I can't find what I'm looking for here.

I need to replace a lot of the bolts on my 1953 D1 plunger frame.

When stripping it down, most nuts and bolts where pretty stuck, some needed to be cut to get them off, as such I now don't have a complete set for the rebuild.

There is a lot of bolt kits available online, but they are either over £100 or don't deliver to northern ireland.

What is the best way to get replacement bolts, do I just bite the bullet and get the £100 set off ebay or is there a better way of getting them.
What is the most popular way of replacing these.
The original bike was in a sorry state so I'm impressed with what I did manage to remove, but even those are so corroded I am reluctant to use a lot of them again for fear of them getting stuck again and not being able to remove them..

The engine bolts are all pretty good, its the bolts off the frame that are giving me grief.

1953 BSA Bantam D1 Under restoration

2007 BMW F800S OTR

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sunny
Norfolk
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November 25, 2020 - 9:29 am
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hi Paul    do  it  up  with   metric    so  you  can  ride    out    then   get  frends  or fanaly   to  pay  for   a  set  a  christmas    2021   ill   have  a sort out to see  wot      1/4   whit    engine  bolts  iv  got       PM   me   

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cocorico
Central France
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November 25, 2020 - 10:03 am
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Have you tried ** Please log in to view ** or looked in the Members Area?

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Stoo63
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November 25, 2020 - 10:21 am
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It's a laborious but satisfying task. Cross reference the part numbers on the parts diagrams from Draganfly with the dimensions ** Please log in to view **

 Then it's a case of searching eBay/ the Web for suppliers. This is why people charge £100 + - for all the research

 Or, as Sunny says, just go metric. Who's gonna be measuring them anyway? 

 '55 D3 Battery; '58 Square Four (project); '59 D1 direct lighting plunger; '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E; '91 GTR 1000;  '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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Unitminor
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November 25, 2020 - 12:06 pm
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If you want to keep it imperial sizes have you got a local supplier of engineering supplies you could try . I would measure the bolt dia and length and see what is available i would also use bsf or unf if possible £100 seems rather excessive .

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cocorico
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November 25, 2020 - 1:28 pm
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Stoo63 said
...Cross reference the part numbers on the parts diagrams from Draganfly with the dimensions ** Please log in to view ** ...
 

That would be useful if posted in LINKS, too.

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GlenAnderson
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November 25, 2020 - 2:27 pm
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Namric near Brighton are a good source of nuts and bolts. 

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Number6
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November 25, 2020 - 3:40 pm
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Unitminor said
If you want to keep it imperial sizes have you got a local supplier of engineering supplies you could try . I would measure the bolt dia and length and see what is available i would also use bsf or unf if possible £100 seems rather excessive .  

http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/imagex/misc/hand-point-up.gif THIS

I looked at a couple of those kits, and thought, "'OW MUCH ???" (preferably in a Yorskshire accent)

laugh

Mind you I've spent far more on other stuff.

Mine has got a lot of metric on it, but mostly only 'cause I already got a stash of metric. For threaded holes, e.g. in frame etc., am keeping as imperial. Still with new bolts tho. All of the bolts and screws that came out (bear in mind, bike was supposed to be "fully restored, ready-to-ride", when I got it http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/imagex/misc/angry.gif – no it ain't) were scrap, excepting only the 4 engine mount bolts being good enough to go back in. http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/imagex/misc/ohmy.gif

I also got an engine screw kit, having socket hed Allen screws, that's OK matches the socket head Allen screws on the frame. laugh

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

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BillShas
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November 27, 2020 - 7:17 pm
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Lots of suppliers on google / eBay for less, the £100 kits in stainless tend to come packaged with individual sets marked up, that’s why they are £100

IMG_1011.jpg

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Sponge
Lancashire (A chip shop somewhere near Preston)
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November 27, 2020 - 11:03 pm
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T

BillShas said
Lots of suppliers on google / eBay for less, the £100 kits in stainless tend to come packaged with individual sets marked up, that’s why they are £100

IMG_1011.jpg  

Here are lots of suppliers of fasteners out there who will sell you bags of nuts and washers by the hundred. You will find that all you teally need are a few BSF sizes and a cuple of sizes of bolts which tyou can cut to size with a hacksaw. I reckon you can get enough nits amd bolts and washers to build 5 bantams for a lot less than £100. I am building a D10 at present and have replaced most fasteners with steel for less than £20 by buying in bulk. If you PM me I will post the name of my supplier who I am sure mail them to NI. 

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GlenAnderson
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November 28, 2020 - 1:42 am
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Stainless steel fasteners are not the silver bullet some may have you believe. I seldom use them, and never on anything suspension or braking related. 

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Sponge
Lancashire (A chip shop somewhere near Preston)
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November 28, 2020 - 1:57 pm
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My strategy for nuts and bolts and washers depends upon the project I am working on.  I hate chewed up nuts and bolts where somebody has attacked the nut or bolt end with pliers or a wrong sized spanner so I will always replace any fasteners that are damaged.

If the bike is a concourse build or one that I might use in bad weather I tend to go for stainless steel in the correct imperial sizes but if it is a non concourse overhaul I will always try to save and re-use the original BSA fasteners where they are not damaged - this is because a lot of fasteners were specified out of a special steel compound depending upon the stress / load they were used for - if you re-use undamaged originals at least you are on the right track.   I degrease in my home made degreasing plant ( a large pickled onion jar with some white spirits in it - you shake it vigorously ),  then will dress off any burrs from the bolt / nut heads and run a die down the threads of the bolts and a tap into the nut.  I always assemble fasteners with a lubricant ( grease or 2-stroke oil ....depending how I feel on the day).   You only need a few BSF and UNF taps and dies and it makes life so much more satisfying if you know that your nut will come off again when you want it to.         

I never re-use spring or shakeproof washers and keep a good supply of new washers on hand. I do, however re-use the original BSA thick plain washers because once again they are there for a good reason and are hard to get nowadays.   If you re-build your bantam with spring and shakeproof washers make sure they are the right sizes otherwise they will probably vibrate off whilst you are running the Bonneville Salt Flats at well over the ton or whilst racing neck-and-neck with a Fireblade along the Great North Road somewhere near Scotch Corner in which case the Fireblade owner will get ideas well above his station - he might even try to entice your 'old lady' with a more reliable ride !!!  

Having had to work out what was wrong with a 4 stroke BSA once .....I discovered that the PO had re-tapped metric nuts to imperial sizes. This was confusing because some bolts,  and all the nut heads,  had metric spanner sizes but imperial threads.  I suspect the tight git did it because he had a ready supply of chromed metric nuts but it is genuinely no fun trying to fix a metric nut with a BSF/Whit spanner when your hands are numb from the cold and its pouring with rain next to a busy A road.  Also the forks and engine mountings were sloppy because the bolts were undersized, only by a bit but enough to cause vibration problems.   I went right through the whole bike and replaced them all with the correct imperial fasteners.  Not a cheap job. So I do not advocate using metric fasteners on a bike that was originally imperial - the correct sized fasteners are readily available and if you elect to use non-stainless you can buy in bulk and make big savings.  I order from Thomas Smith fasteners who will deliver very quickly and stock all the imperial sizes you could ever want.  If you mix metric with imperial you will need to carry twice as many spanners, unless your preferred tool kit is a mole grip and an adjustable spanner.   Happy days and ride on.   

However, its up to you, after all its your bike, do what you want with your nuts but I like mine to be clean, easy to undo, measured in inches, correctly sized and well lubricated. 

       

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Number6
Lincolnshire
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November 28, 2020 - 5:55 pm
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GlenAnderson said
Stainless steel fasteners are not the silver bullet some may have you believe. I seldom use them, and never on anything suspension or braking related.   

OK for mudguards and suchlike.

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

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GlenAnderson
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November 28, 2020 - 6:40 pm
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Number6 said

OK for mudguards and suchlike.  

Sort of. 

Their tendency to spall (seize) means I don’t like using them anywhere. Nyloc nuts work well, but look out of place, and stainless spring washers don’t bite into stainless nuts like decent ones do into steel ones. If you’re happy with the risk of them shaking loose, fine, but I have had enough failures one way or another with stainless fixings over the years to avoid them unless they’re the higher quality marine grade; and only when I can see no alternative. Our bikes were fitted with self colour bolts that were overpainted, and I’d sooner use original fixings or BZP ones. 

Your bike, your wallet, your choice. 👍

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Number6
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November 29, 2020 - 7:04 pm
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Interesting, I have never yet had any problem with stainless fasteners and been using them for years. http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/imagex/misc/ohmy.gif

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

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tridentperu
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November 29, 2020 - 8:43 pm
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Why not use imperial sized unf bolts and nuts / spring washers on anything that doesn't need a Whitworth thread specifically. You would have to use Whitworth into frame lugs etc which are tapped. UNF cheap and easily available.

I don't like full nylocs but you can get thin versions which are useful in hidden places like inside mudguards etc.

The old Whitworth bolts can be replated with zinc if in good shape and the threads not worn, just a bit rusty - also very cheap to do but make sure you clean them up properly before sending them in.

Jim

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GlenAnderson
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November 29, 2020 - 9:49 pm
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tridentperu said
Why not use imperial sized unf bolts and nuts / spring washers on anything that doesn't need a Whitworth thread specifically. 

There’s no engineering reason why not. Same as there’s no sound engineering reason why not to use metric ones. I don’t because I’m the kind of obsessive that thinks that the original fixings should be used wherever possible, and because I get irked by finding that I need a 1/2”AF spanner when it should be the 1/4”WW I have in my hand. 

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