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Electric horn on a 1948 D1
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carpetralph
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September 10, 2019 - 7:03 am
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My bike has a bulb horn running through the headstock which gives off an embarrassing squeak. Sounds like a dogs chew toy or something.

Is it possible to wire in a horn on a geni mag system, maybe off the lighting circuit.

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cocorico
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September 10, 2019 - 7:41 am
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Anything is possible, but there's not a lot of output to play with unless you have a battery. You could fit a piezoelectric buzzer with an internal battery - I have one which emits an ear-splitting squeal,I've not changed the battery yet. It's like this one (though not from USA).

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1956 D3 running, lights to sort. 7 other bikes in the Barn, including a Morini 250 now insured and on road testing.

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sunny
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September 10, 2019 - 8:42 am
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thers  not  enuf  power  for   a  horn  unles  you  upgraed  to 12 volts   with   a regulator   / rectyfier  &  your  geny    but  wer  do  you  fit  a  12 volt  batery

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carpetralph
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September 10, 2019 - 9:53 pm
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sunny said
thers  not  enuf  power  for   a  horn  unles  you  upgraed  to 12 volts   with   a regulator   / rectyfier  &  your  geny    but  wer  do  you  fit  a  12 volt  batery  

I remember some mopeds and small scooters had direct systems , vespas did, and I admit they gave off a rather feeble grating sound.

I don`t keep anything in the toolbox, so I could maybe fit a small rechargeable battery in there and use that to power the horn. 

If I could get an original bulb horn that would be good enough, but they are hard to find aren`t they.

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mike p5xbx
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September 10, 2019 - 11:20 pm
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I had a 6V AC horn on my first D1 Bantam think it was probably from a MOBYLETTE moped and it worked ok even with the lights on
made a horrible screech sound but better then a bulb horn

D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

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sunny
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September 11, 2019 - 8:55 am
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i have  a   A/C  horn   but  i  dont  get  back  till  the  weekend   so  get  back  to  me  then  if  you  wont  it

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carpetralph
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September 12, 2019 - 6:58 am
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Looking in my Pitmans book of the Bantam it says Wipac did a conversion kit,

" It is now possible for any Bantam owner to convert a direct lighting set into rectifier lighting, with battery. Three types of "convertakit" (requiring no special tools for fitting) are available."

Has anyone got any details about what this kit consisted of.

Another reason for thinking of going to battery electrics is that I have never had a brake light on the D1 all the time I have had it, even though I have the slightly later 480 type rear lamp with double filament bulb.

I was thinking that if I tapped into  the single wire from the generator to a rectifier that would give me about 15watts of DC from my 30w AC geni, as the rectifier would cut off half the output power (I think), enough to charge a battery to power brake light and horn when the lights were off. I would leave the rest of the lighting system as it is so it could still run on AC and take the full geni power when needed.  My thinking could be flawed as I am no electrical whiz so any feedback appreciated.

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sunny
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September 12, 2019 - 7:37 am
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none   of  the  A/C dyrect   lighting    systems   had  a stop lamp     ,,kits / BITS    have  been   avlable      for  the  last  45 years   its  the   bateryholder    &  headlamp  that  will  giv  most  consern       try   REX       ,.,. you  will probly   be  doing  a  rewier   job also

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mike p5xbx
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September 12, 2019 - 3:51 pm
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There was a forum post about the “kit” some while ago but I cant find it
but I dont think you will find one to buy now, it had two resistors of unknown value so making one would be difficult
and as you have the later rear lamp with a 6/18 watt bulb it probably would not work anyway
you just dont have enough output from the Gen to run it with the h/lamp on
feeding the brake lamp from a rechargeable battery is about your only option
or update the stator/flywheel to a later D7 type

D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

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carpetralph
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September 13, 2019 - 6:54 am
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Just found the "Electex" kit for D1 to7 Bantams. This is obviously the best way to go, although not cheap at £285. I might get one and upgrade the D1 over winter. Will have to find (or make) a battery box as used on Lucas equipped D1s.

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cocorico
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September 13, 2019 - 7:44 am
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Seems an expensive route to an audible horn (which tin-boxers will ignore anyway). Pedestrians react just as well to "Oi!", I find.

1956 D3 running, lights to sort. 7 other bikes in the Barn, including a Morini 250 now insured and on road testing.

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sunny
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September 13, 2019 - 9:33 am
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somebody   sels   a  ruber   horn  complet  for  erly   modls      i  think   about   £48    ,.,.its  best  to  do a serch  on   " Electrecs "  for  a  revue   i  think  as  one  of  the  club  chaps  maks  a beter  looking    one but i  dont  know  if  it  replases   a  GENYMAG    have  you  tryed  a 6 pole  roter  and a  reg/rec  unit   

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cocorico
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September 13, 2019 - 10:19 am
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Please don't take this the wrong way - but you have a 1948 D1, going on the title of your post. That is one of the very first examples of the model and after 71 years, possibly one of the rarer examples. I can't help feeling that if you 'improve' it too much, you will lose a lot in potential value without gaining much in performance. As Sunny says, replacement bulb horns are available, as well as options already mentioned. Of course - it's your bike to do with as you please.

Have you seen Hans Kreuzen's site covering just about everything on the '48 model? You may find it useful. ** Please log in to view **

1956 D3 running, lights to sort. 7 other bikes in the Barn, including a Morini 250 now insured and on road testing.

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carpetralph
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September 14, 2019 - 7:05 pm
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cocorico said
Please don't take this the wrong way - but you have a 1948 D1, going on the title of your post. That is one of the very first examples of the model and after 71 years, possibly one of the rarer examples. I can't help feeling that if you 'improve' it too much, you will lose a lot in potential value without gaining much in performance. As Sunny says, replacement bulb horns are available, as well as options already mentioned. Of course - it's your bike to do with as you please.

Have you seen Hans Kreuzen's site covering just about everything on the '48 model? You may find it useful. ** Please log in to view **

The bulb horn I have was a replacement from Bantam John many years ago, and it is embarrassing. When your at a show everyone wants to try the horn, and then fall about laughing. Honestly it gives off a squeak that sounds just like a dogs chew toy. The reed is too small and cannot be made to sound any better. If it gave off a decent Honk I wouldn`t be bothered. If I knew that the current replacements were better I would buy one to keep the bike original, in any case I would leave the bulb on the bike even if I had an electric item hidden under the seat or tank to keep it looking right.

But you can only go so far. I have a later barrel and head on with bigger fins (though I have got original items stashed away), my headlight is not correct because as you are probably aware the torch battery that was provided to supply the parking lamp used to corrode the aluminium headlamp shell away, so had to use a later single switch headlamp unit, and I no longer have the handlebar cable operated dip mechanism early bikes should have.

More to the point, I think I am right in saying that it is now a legal requirement to have a brake light, which I do not. When I used to get it MOT tested my friendly tester always said I should have one but turned a blind eye as it had never been fitted with one. I did notice that on  direct lighting D7 models there was a brake light, but seems to be governed by a complicated system of cross switching and resistors.

I think I may just fit a small rechargeable gel battery in the toolbox wired directly to a basic brake lamp switch and to the back light. I already have the double filament back light unit, and as long as I don`t sit at a standstill with my foot on the brake, I would think it would last quite a while. An 18w bulb at 6v is drawing 3 amps, so even a 5amp hour battery should light it continuously for over an hour.

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Stoo63
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September 14, 2019 - 7:21 pm
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Perhaps you could try to find a different reed?  I'm on the look out for one that fits just now to replace an ineffective one. The brake switch "upgrade" has been covered many, many times on the forum, so all the info you could need is already out there. 

'52 D1 direct lighting plunger, '58 Square Four (project), '59 D1 direct lighting plunger,  '59 Tiger Cub, '60 5TA,  '76 FS1-E

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Piquet
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September 14, 2019 - 10:37 pm
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There were 2 different types of kit from Wipac back in the day, the first was a ** Please log in to view **) and used the resistors he mentioned. Wipac gave stern warnings not to operate the light switch whilst the footbrake was depressed which would create a brief duration open circuit of the loading, leading to blowing the stoplight bulbs!

The other was called Convertakit and it was to convert bikes with AC electrics to DC. The kit contained a battery carrier, toolbox bracket and fitting template plus a rectifier and various leads.

BSA service sheet 810a states that

On machines manufactured after August 1955, different generators are used for A.C. and D.C. equipment. These are marked Spec. No. IG 1452 for A.C. only (D1, D3 and D5 models), Spec. No. IG 1454 for D.C. only (D1 models), and Spec. No. IG 1450 for D.C. only (D3 swinging arm models). The two D.C. units are the same, except for the lengths of the leads.

and

The A.C. generator Spec. No. IG 1452 cannot be converted to D.C. by means of a Wipac “Converta-kit unless a new three-coil stator plate is also fitted".

so presumably the Convertakit was aimed at the pre '55 machines fitted with the IG1130 stator set and would require re-wiring the coils in addition to fitting the kit.

Wipac said that after fitting the Convertakit, a stoplight and horn could be fitted.

Note:- If you have a '48 bike you may have the earlier Genimag (FW or IG 1005) fitted so none of the above will apply as it is referring to the Series 55 units.

I'm not a complete idiot ............................................ some parts are missing.

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GlenAnderson
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September 18, 2019 - 12:00 am
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I got away without a working brake light on my 53 D1 for years. The MoT man remarked a few times, but always passed it. Eventually (around 1992-ish) I got stopped by a policeman who took issue with the fact that it “wasn’t working”. I was given a 7-day “rectification notice”, that required me to repair the defective lamp, submit the bike for an inspection at an MoT station and get them to testify that the “fault” had been fixed. I was left with little choice but to bodge something on. I used a battery holder with 4 “D” cells in the toolbox as a total-loss supply for just the brake light. It worked well enough, and the batteries used to last months as long as I remembered not to sit with my foot on the back brake when stationary. 

After a bit, I converted the engine to a D7 style battery generator, with coil ignition, and ran it like that for a few more years, using the extra output to run a proper set of lights and an electric horn. The biggest issue with that setup was having to have a relatively big battery to cope with the crude charging system (small ones would boil if the lights were off) and there was nowhere really that it could live without looking rubbish. 

These days I have one of Rex Caunt’s Cdi systems fitted, with a small 12v sealed lead-acid battery  hidden in the toolbox. Best thing I’ve done to the bike. Reliable starting, decent enough lights, enough capacity for a brake light and horn, and a charging system well enough regulated that even a small battery is more than adequate. 

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carpetralph
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September 18, 2019 - 6:57 am
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GlenAnderson said  

These days I have one of Rex Caunt’s Cdi systems fitted, with a small 12v sealed lead-acid battery  hidden in the toolbox. Best thing I’ve done to the bike. Reliable starting, decent enough lights, enough capacity for a brake light and horn, and a charging system well enough regulated that even a small battery is more than adequate.   

What magneto is this fitted to, given the comments above about early genimags not being convertible.

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GlenAnderson
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September 18, 2019 - 9:09 am
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carpetralph said

What magneto is this fitted to, given the comments above about early genimags not being convertible.  

A Type 55, the standard one for the later D1 and the D3/5/7. Although it only uses the cast stator plate and cover, everything else is new, including a smaller, lighter rotor. 

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Piquet
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September 18, 2019 - 11:01 am
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The notes about the Convertakit do refer to the Series 55 generators only, not the Genimag

but,

as the mounting is the same and the flywheel is replaced too, then any Bantam with a Genimag or Series 55 should be able to be fitted with an electronic ignition/generator kit though some kits may need parts of an old Series 55 stator plate (with a good bush) to allow fitting.

The only Bantams that cannot currently be fitted with electronic ignition/generator without serious modification is the Lucas models.

I'm not a complete idiot ............................................ some parts are missing.

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