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D1 Chainguard / Mudguard / tyre - lack of clearance
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bantammad
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February 23, 2020 - 2:31 pm
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Hi bantammad ere yes Blue that’s the other issue that not that many may release the safety side like you near NEAR ENOUGH IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH any day of the week regards Les 

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paulkentuk
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February 23, 2020 - 5:47 pm
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bantammad said
Hi bantammad ere here is a point it may be the correct wheel etc but is rim off set correct distance from the brake hub? I’ve had owned a motorcycle work shop MOT station we sent out wheel to be rebuilt by a main wheel building company here in the midlands I’ve had wheels returned 1/4 inch out wheel assemblers do make mistakes so don’t take it as red they are correct just trying to help regards Les   

 

'Number 6' has kindly taken a photo of his D1 Plunger rear end - it has confirmed I have the same wheel hub.

He was able to get his wheel's offset + or -  a couple of mm. I placed a strip of wood across the rim and marked it to the back of the sprocket. I get 23mm offset, which sits right in the middle of his result from the same alignment.

However measuring up from the Plunger shrouds to the outside edge of the tyre, (not an exact science if we aren't both using 2.75 × 19 Mitras tyres) I get 34mm both sides rather than the 'number 6' result of 25.4mm & 38.1 mm on the chainguard side respectively.

I will be running a straight line over the frame this week, but looking at the numbers, I'm not sure by themselves swapping the speedo for a Smith's, and getting the lock nut turned down will give me sufficient chainguard clearance.

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NeilB
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February 23, 2020 - 6:21 pm
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Can you measure the tyre width, or measure the clearances to the rim? If the spoke have been tightened all one side before the other, it could tilt the rim over one way even if the offset is close?

Straight edge and comparing measurements to those drawings is definitely the next sensible step! 

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paulkentuk
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February 26, 2020 - 12:22 pm
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NeilB said
Can you measure the tyre width, or measure the clearances to the rim? If the spoke have been tightened all one side before the other, it could tilt the rim over one way even if the offset is close?

Straight edge and comparing measurements to those drawings is definitely the next sensible step!   

Hi Folk,
 
Once again thank you for the contributions.
 
I downloaded the '710 x ' Bantam frame data file from the Club archive and have run a ruler over the following :-
 
Plunger column centres = 7 1/2" but should be 7 3/4"
Mudguard bracket inside leading edges = 4 7/8" but should be 4 3/8"
 
There is a difference in sizes between the Excelsior and Smith's speedo, with the chainguard in situ that isn't going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things !
 
The wheels were 'aligned' (front mudguard is indeed closer to its LH forkleg by the way) & I used the Glos Reps 'trusty' wheel alignment 'tool,' (very long strip of steel ! ) with the tyres square on both wheels against it.
 
I'd genuinely be interested in views, the numbers suggest  - I do need to find a motoliner; but I've also got a niggling doubt about how much that rear hub protrudes out on the speedo side ....
 
The photo's are on my Dropbox folder , but I've PM'd them as well to a couple of members who have offered thoughts offline.
 

** Please log in to view **

Regards

Paul

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bantammad
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February 26, 2020 - 12:48 pm
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Hi bantammad ere just been looking at the photos of your bantam what’s the width of your chain guard? Regards Les 

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Number6
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February 26, 2020 - 4:33 pm
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Plunger column centres = 7 1/2" but should be 7 3/4"

Just to confuse the issue further, mine are 7 5/8.

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

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paulkentuk
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February 28, 2020 - 9:38 am
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bantammad said
Hi bantammad ere just been looking at the photos of your bantam what’s the width of your chain guard? Regards Les   

Hi Les,

1 1/4" from kerbside edge to the slot cut-out.

Regards

Paul

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paulkentuk
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February 28, 2020 - 9:48 am
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Number6 said

Plunger column centres = 7 1/2" but should be 7 3/4"

Just to confuse the issue further, mine are 7 5/8.  

I've just spotted a couple of D1 plunger hubs on fleebay and my concern that my hub carries too much space out towards the speedo has proved unfounded. Using the centre grease nipple in the pictures as a known quantity, the spacing on the fleebay items from the spoke ring, appears the same as mine.

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paulkentuk
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March 1, 2020 - 4:20 pm
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paulkentuk said

I've just spotted a couple of D1 plunger hubs on fleebay and my concern that my hub carries too much space out towards the speedo has proved unfounded. Using the centre grease nipple in the pictures as a known quantity, the spacing on the fleebay items from the spoke ring, appears the same as mine.  

CONCLUSSION:-

Two fellow Glos Bantam club members have come around to my garage, armed with measurements from their various stables of 'complete' D1s. 

Again minor differences were found in the their measurements between plunger column centres etc.

However - after their inspection there is general agreement that:-

a.) nobobody can put a finger on the frame as a 'real' issue

b.) I can recover the much needed space, if the chainguard is ground back further by about 1/2 " along the slot cut-out, (previous you will see I've had it strengthened so it will easily accommodate that)

c.) use the Smith's rather than Excelsior Speedo

The mudguard will then fit against that chainguard without being compressed onto the tyre. The centre tyre lines up with the frame tube centre,  the job is a 'good un !'

So still work to do, but light at the end of the tunnel !

I'd like to thank everyone that has offered thoughts through this forum, as they have allowed me to structure positive  investigation activities.

Regards

Paul

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Number6
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March 1, 2020 - 8:05 pm
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http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/imagex/misc/th_thumbsup.gif

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

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