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BSA Bantam D7 Twin Switch Remote Coil Lighting Coil Charge Wiring
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coppamick
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October 9, 2018 - 4:04 pm
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Hi, enough already looking for the elusive diagrams information etc on the alternator connections for a twin switch  D7 Battery remote Coil model.

 

Ok Howard gave some advice before, charge coil sitting on the top position with orange and white leads which go to the brass connections on the stator at 1 and 4 which in turn the white and orange from the rectifier connect too.

On the other side 2 lighting coils are linked in parallel with a white and dark red lead, number 2 on the stator is earthed and takes the white lead, number 3 then takes the dark red from the lighting coil, the red from the loom connects here which goes to the headlamp switch, from the switch the lead changes to pink supply.

My issue is that with 2 being earthed, 3 will also become earthed as it is the other side of the coil leads from the lighting coils.

Am I missing something ?? any advice thanks the Stator is 55 Mk 8 Spec 1704 with AC/DC flywheel good magnets

 

thankswipac.jpg

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Doug Brown
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October 9, 2018 - 5:53 pm
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I think you've got your direct current  head stuck on ? Its hard to get your head around alternating current isn't it. I spent ages trying to figure out my wife's d7 twin switch. I'm still to be heard muttering thats impossible! Of course it usually isn't I just haven't grasped it yet. All the wires are positive and negative as is the frame in the circuit to the rectifier . See , now look what you've done!

      I have just thought , hang on a minute. If the lighting is ac all the time its wires and the frame are alternating positive then negative. The other battery charging  coils are doing the same up to the rectifier . Why don't they interfer with each other. Phased not to I guess.

This is a really good book on electrics. Hell , I almost know what I 'm doing now😂

Tracy Martin Motorcycle  electrical systems troubleshooting and repair. I was going to put in a link but its not working  some how.

Triumph Thunderbird 900 Yamaha rxs 100 and too many bantams !

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Doug Brown
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October 9, 2018 - 5:55 pm
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** Please log in to view **

Triumph Thunderbird 900 Yamaha rxs 100 and too many bantams !

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Mick W
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October 9, 2018 - 7:17 pm
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coppamick said

My issue is that with 2 being earthed, 3 will also become earthed as it is the other side of the coil leads from the lighting coils.

Am I missing something ?? any advice thanks the Stator is 55 Mk 8 Spec 1704 with AC/DC flywheel good magnets

 

thanks  

It just works. If you try to understand it you will never get it on the road. I’m still seeing the therapist after trying to understand it.

Good luck

Mick

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Mags 1
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October 9, 2018 - 7:55 pm
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The lights are AC on the D7 and very simple, one side is earthed, yes, other side goes to switch and bulb through the dipped/main beam, which returns it all to earth again, completing the circuit.

I can't see what's so hard to understand about that?

The orange/white coil is ac too, yes, but it goes to the rectifier, never touching earth on the way in, only on the way out is the positive end earthed to make the other charging circuit work through the frame as a return.

Okay, I see, do you mean the AC and the DC circuits getting confused or something? Doesn't really matter of course, things either work or they don't, whether you worry about it or not! It works, I'm glad to say, you don't have to truly understand everything to make it work, it works whether you understand or not!

An aunt of mine took her test 25 times before passing, she had no inkling of how the simplest of engines worked, but her car always went well in spite of it's owner and her lack of empathy/sympathy for its inner workings. Every hill taken in top gear etc, only second and third used in town etc, choke left fully out for most of the journey, feet always resting on clutch and brake pedals, just in case...car went well!

Four now on the road and at least several in bits.

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coppamick
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October 9, 2018 - 8:28 pm
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glad its a very sympathetic site explaining yes you are wired correctly, no you need to do this and that.

no it just works get over it

arrogance is great when you type replies, even if your granny has passed her test

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coppamick
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October 9, 2018 - 9:20 pm
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Thanks to Mike Foster and the chat on the telephone I am happy that the madness is clearer and there may be a switch fault, but the connections are in the right place. thank you

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cocorico
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October 10, 2018 - 8:12 am
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coppamick said

arrogance is great when you type replies, even if your granny has passed her test  

Please don't respond to someone's effort to help you in such a manner, or I'll intervene further.

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Mags 1
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October 10, 2018 - 9:43 am
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cocorico said

Please don't respond to someone's effort to help you in such a manner, or I'll intervene further.  

It's OK cocorico, re-reading it I needn't have mentioned my aunt at all, which didn't help much, I'll try to keep to facts in future.

Four now on the road and at least several in bits.

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Mick W
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October 10, 2018 - 7:34 pm
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And I will try not to respond thereby giving the same informative effort that Coppamick has made to others in his 2 1/2 years of membership of the forum

obviously humour is not permitted in the Bantam world for some

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coppamick
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November 19, 2018 - 8:05 pm
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Well here we are again, I asked for help, and get comments in 2 d which may be jovial then I get a veiled threat from a Mod but I asked a question over the wiring of the alternator of a D7 twin switch.

Not many places show the wiring inside the alternator, it shows connections from loom to alternator not stator to coils, the external coil model has three coils, one to charging battery and two to lighting circuit, these are AC (alternating current) until the battery charging (white and orange wires terminals 1 and 4) reach the rectifier and it changes to direct current to charge the battery. Lighting is through terminal 2 and 3, 2 is an earth 4 has one lighting lead to the loom (red wire)

I used a digital voltmeter and got no power from the coils on either side yet I contacted a light to each side and got light, although at headlamp I got nothing. People can make comments but until you have the issue infront of you it is an unknown fix.

My brother and I have 13 restors behind us from cubs to Tridents and variants in between. this problem may seem easy but vexing none the less.

All put together and I ran it up, no headlight, checked with digital voltmeter and no output, hence my original question,

Its taken a while to trace it through but change of stators and coils and today and using an AVO analogue meter got voltage from both coils, 40 volts AC from Lighting side 20 AC from charging side after rectifier regulator it was down to 30v lights and 7 volt dc from battery,

Checked through to the switch and it was intermittent, kept blowing the speedo bulb, blows the tail light, now put it through a regulator for the lighting side, and found a faulty switch that was putting all the volts to the speedo bulb.

Each is individual, if people ask advice its because we trace faults, find issues to help others reach their endeavour of getting another banty on the road again.

It may be simple to one person, mixing AC voltage with DC voltage and other prehistoric (well vintage British) is a challenge

cheers,

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cocorico
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November 19, 2018 - 8:50 pm
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There was nothing veiled about my comment that I would not tolerate what I saw and understood as a mocking comment on another users attempt to help.  The last line of terms and conditions reads thus: The BSA Bantam Club reserves the right to remove any material it considers to be inappropriate or offensive.

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johnsullivan
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November 19, 2018 - 8:51 pm
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I have a  D7 with a melange of 59 and 66 wiring and the vague sizzling noise in my brain has already started ..wish me luck and smoke me a kipper.Enough to make you go diesel....The bike was an abandoned resto ...will I never learn? one real problem with wipac is that separate coil for the plug with the dodgy HT connection ..will bore you to death with progress first spark will be a thirty page hallelujah...lights ...

67 D10. and a D7    2007 Honda Hornet FA. Suzuki 89  DR 250S, Sinnis SC 125. 78 Honda 90  75 Montesa Cota 247 an electric scooter of famous make.

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sunny
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November 20, 2018 - 11:02 am
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the  fact that    all   3   D 7   modles    carnt   have  the  Headlamp   working   unless   the  moor,s   runing  ,,,     tels  us   its  not  the  same as    the D 1,3& 5   ,s    witch   had  4 chanes   in  ther  electrics       but  staing    a FULL  D/C     Batery   sistem     it  very   hard   to  beleve  coz  thay look  the   same        ,, the  ancer   is  to  upgrade   to  a  coil  under  the  seat   sysstem      this  givs    over  15,000 volts  the  spark  plug  all the  time  if   the  batery   is  good     ,,  this   system   was   fited to  the  2  SW  D 7  &  the  rest  of  the  bantam  Modles    some  without   baters

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Mags 1
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November 20, 2018 - 4:33 pm
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Yes, 3 is earthed through the switch and eventually the earth on the reflector feed, to make the return complete circuit, or lights won't work.

The Wipac switches are often the cause of Bantam problems, try swapping the lighting and ignition ones around, or trying another switch.

If you can light a bulb at the 2 or 3 terminals to nearby stator earth, it proves coils are working, so fault has to be elswhere.

Four now on the road and at least several in bits.

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coppamick
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November 20, 2018 - 6:36 pm
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Yes I understand the wiring, the digital meter we tried two and neither produced a voltage reading but bounced around with the pulses of the coils, the bike is coil under the saddle in any case as it should be. If you trust meter like we did you go round and round in circles, a test lamp across the terminals proved the coils were making voltage and then changing to a third meter we were able to confirm how much voltage.

Then following the wiring and earths back to the headlamp is when we found the problem with a headlamp switch , that was swapped over an then there was light

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johnsullivan
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November 20, 2018 - 6:58 pm
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AHA you understand the wiring HUH ?for this you will be shot...Our old friend corrosion has a lot to do with hair loss and fried brains.I had a guzzi V50 which ate ignition switches because it was totally unwaterproof.I have just lashed out 2.55 gbp on an analogue meter to avoid the limitations of the digital sort The behaviour of the needle can be 'read 'I find..

67 D10. and a D7    2007 Honda Hornet FA. Suzuki 89  DR 250S, Sinnis SC 125. 78 Honda 90  75 Montesa Cota 247 an electric scooter of famous make.

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Mags 1
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November 20, 2018 - 11:59 pm
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coppamick said
Yes I understand the wiring, the digital meter we tried two and neither produced a voltage reading but bounced around with the pulses of the coils, the bike is coil under the saddle in any case as it should be. If you trust meter like we did you go round and round in circles, a test lamp across the terminals proved the coils were making voltage and then changing to a third meter we were able to confirm how much voltage.

Then following the wiring and earths back to the headlamp is when we found the problem with a headlamp switch , that was swapped over an then there was light  

I never use digital meters, useless where Bantams are concerned, most of the time, get yourself a cheap and cheerful analogue, lots of odd voltage spikes are smoothed out because they're not so very sensitive. (Or something like that, I'm not an electrician, but get by).

Four now on the road and at least several in bits.

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Glenn
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December 9, 2018 - 10:39 am
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Does anyone koow of a good source for the 2 x lighting coil and the battery charging coil mentioned above for the twin switch D7?  I can't even find a part number for these to help me source the correct items.  

 

Cheers! 

Glenn

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sunny
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December 9, 2018 - 12:31 pm
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wot  seems  to  be  the  problam     as  the  2 SW  wiering   dont mix    its   best   to   isolat  the  two  sysems  completly   it s   much  ezyer   to  understand     you  would   only   need  to  use  one  switch    unles  you     im  going  out   rite  know   see  you  later   Glenn

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