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BSA Bantam D7 1965/1966 Rectifier and Wipac generator coils.
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craigacc
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July 31, 2021 - 11:04 am
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Hi,

I'm restoring the Mary Smith round the world Bantam D7. An interesting restoration as the bike has been laid up since Mary finished her round the work trip in 1975. ** Please log in to view **

It's equipped with the same Wipac generator that was on my own 1965 D7 - not later versions of generators or alternators (so the three primary/lighting coil type, with HT ignition coil mounted on the rear mudguard). It has the I and E type ignition switch in the headlamp.

So two questions:

1. I'm looking for a new rectifier.

Lots of good advice on the forums about wiring these up, but I've become confused about what actual component to use, as there seems to be several options, which I'm not sure would work with my specific type. I would be really grateful for some simple specific 'quick hit' info on what type of rectifier to obtain and if possible some links to this.

I don't wish to upgrade the electrics - the bike will mostly be displayed at shows and maybe very occasionally used locally by Mary, so standard factory specification will be OK.   

2. Where can I obtain the three primary coils for the generator, as the existing ones have failed. (Mary rode the last leg of her trip, across the USA, via daily battery charges). I can find lots of the small HT coils for sale on eBay etc which sit inside the generator, but this bike has a more modern HT coil mounted externally, with the three primary and lighting coils in the generator.  

Many thanks in advance for your advice.

Regards,

Craig. 

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Stoo63
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August 2, 2021 - 9:00 am
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Hi Craig and a very warm welcome to the Forum. What an interesting project. I'm sue we'd all love tosee some pics(see below). Be very interested to se th ebalance between restoration and preservation

You will find just about everything you could ever want on the Forum via the FAQs and technical sections;  ** Please log in to view **

Have a really good nose around the forum and enjoy yourself. Looking forward to seeing your progress.

Good Luck!

All the best,

Stewart

'49 LE; '50 D1 Lucas; '55 D3 Battery; '58 Square Four (project); '59 D1 direct lighting; '60 5TA; '62 BSA Sunbeam; '72 Mobylette; '76 FS1-E; 

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sunny
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August 2, 2021 - 9:36 am
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hi   Craig   the  coils   fited  to  the  D 7  are  wiered  up  differant  please  read    Ducon & Trycon   in   the  F A Q   list      its sounds  like  the  D 7s  1704   SPEC   sistem       the  coils   are  prity   tuff    its   moor likely    to be a bad  connetion     and  fallty  rectyfier      .,., the  new typ  BRIDE  RECTFIER     [  about  a   fiver   ]        a black  sqwer  thing   with  4  contacs  is  your  best   bet     and  check   the   wiering  loom   for  damage  or   manky   green  connections     i   DONT   think  you  will  need  new  coils   

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cocorico
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August 2, 2021 - 11:36 am
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Hello Craig, sounds as though you have a very interesting restoration on your hands. I presume all the accumulated patina from the trip is to be preserved? As Sunny says, a modern rectifier is easy to find, and pretty cheap, like ** Please log in to view **.

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mike p5xbx
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August 2, 2021 - 4:31 pm
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direct link to the lightingcoils if you really need them but not often that they are faulty
** Please log in to view **

wipac-coils.jpg

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D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

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GlenAnderson
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August 2, 2021 - 11:33 pm
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With the availability of inexpensive and reliable combined rectifier and regulator units these days I’d seriously consider fitting one instead of just a basic rectifier and relying on the crude circuit switching and big battery to soak up the excess current. 

Great project by the way. Cracking bit of history. 

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cocorico
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August 3, 2021 - 8:07 am
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While I'd agree with your view generally, Glen. I think, in this instance, sticking with the original system is what is wanted - mainly as the intention appears to be display and occasional runs. For any other, more regular use, a change to a 12V, neg earth, rec/reg system is a sensible option.

After all, if it crossed the USA on daily battery charges, the old system can't be all bad! wink

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sunny
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August 3, 2021 - 9:03 am
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hi  Bob  my  thorts   also     and  we  never   get   the  full   story   of the  problam   its   baseic   gesing   game  with  the  infow  we get    but  we dont  back  away    just  try  to  help     i would  think  the bantam  in this story     had  to  upgrade  or  the  D 7 s  rear  LAMP   to   the  stanard   6/18  watt  insted  of  the  one  the  sytem  was  serpos  to  use    so  expoct  a  recharge     to  mack   the   jerny  

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craigacc
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August 4, 2021 - 7:42 am
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Thank you all for your advice and warm welcome. Very much appreciated. 

I'll post some more photos in a couple of weeks - away on a trip until then. But I attach one as it is right now.IMG_5955.jpg 

Interesting to note that the coils are robust, so I'll look for other issues. Though these have powered the bike all the way round the world, so I'd expect them to be 'tired' at the very least.  It does have new wiring loom, which will help in general electrical terms. Thanks for the tip re the rectifier. Yes, if it was for more regular use, I would look at upgrading the electrics.

A link to some coil test data and test procedure would be great.

In terms of finish, I'm trying to get the bike back to what it would have looked like in 1974 when Mary returned. It's getting there, though it has corroded badly since then. Very sadly someone else had already had a go at 'restoration' and severely damaged the engine and front forks trying to get it apart. Plus did a very bad paint job on the frame. It came to me as boxes of parts. Fortunately, all this has been sorted out now and the bike is back on two wheels. 

Regards to all,

Craig. 

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sunny
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August 4, 2021 - 7:55 am
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grate  job   Craig      and  very  nice  to  be  seeing your  progress  as  you  go  on     its  best  to  check  the  crankshaft  wear  the  oilite  bush  sits 

 its very  inporant  to  the   running   of  the engine  see you  later     

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craigacc
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August 25, 2021 - 2:57 pm
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Hi all,

The three coils were all damaged so need replacing. It's the 1704 type.

Villiers Parts didn't have these, though I didn't discover that until I ordered the three coil set they have - these are for use with the earlier generators where the HT coil is on the upper pole.  

So question: does anyone have a correct set that works and they are willing to part with?

Also, is is possible to rewire the earlier three coil connections to use instead?

This is all rather urgent as the bike is due to be displayed in a show from Sept 4th.

Look forward to any thoughts.

Regards,

Craig. 

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sunny
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August 25, 2021 - 5:13 pm
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sorry  to  say   wot  ever  you  do   i  dont  think   you  will  have  time  to  get  the eletrics  engine  and carb   set  for   the  4 th septmber   if   you  wont  to send  the old 1704   set   over   to me  and  i will  have  a look & see wots  needed on  them   so  P M  me  

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mikef
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August 25, 2021 - 5:38 pm
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Hi Craig.
       If you have to get it running for a show on 4th Sept., then I think that the quickest route is to get a fully charged battery and run it with that. After all Mary rode the last part of her journey in the USA by just recharging the battery so a full charge should be ok for a show.
In the long term, stators for the Wipac 1704 do appear appear on e-bay from time to time and Sunny has offered to help.
One thing strikes me as odd though, it could be down to my lack of knowledge of the D7 models. Your D7 has the older style tank but has the later type twin switch arrangement. I thought that the early tank models had only a lighting switch and magneto ignition. Could anyone confirm?
Good luck.

        Mike.

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Unitminor
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August 25, 2021 - 6:22 pm
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Hello Mike are you saying the tank with the egg shape badge wrong for a twin switch bike . I have a 1965 twin switch D7 with that type of tank which I had always thought was correct but I stand to be  corrected. Brian

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sunny
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August 25, 2021 - 7:55 pm
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the  best  date  info   for  a pair badged tank   sems  to  be on a reg 787 LOK          and  seem  to go on into  the  65  ceon    the  problem  is  the  photos   wer   somtimes  superinposed     to  mack  a good   picher        so  very  hard to  be  corect with  bantam   info   the   photos do show  a 2 switch   pair badeg  tank   super  D 7    for   1965 onward 

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mikef
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August 25, 2021 - 9:08 pm
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Hi Craig.
      To be honest, I don't know exactly when the tank shape changed. I had assumed that the change in tank style coincided with the change from single switch to twin switches. I thought that was around 1964-1965. I was hoping that someone would know for sure.
It seems that you have the correct generator for the twin switched D7, so basically it's just the top coil that connects to the AC input of the rectifier via pins 1 and 4 of the generator. Cocorico has already posted a link to a suitable rectifier.
Good luck.
         Mike.

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craigacc
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August 26, 2021 - 7:41 am
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Hi all,

Thanks for the comments. 

Ref the coils, I have an earlier set for the HT coil inside the generator type which Villiers Parts supplied. They suggested I modify these which I will do for now, though I understand the charging coil in this set is very low output. Does anyone have thoughts on this? Thanks for the offer above re looking at the generator - I may be in touch about that after the show! I'm aware that if I need to I could just set up the points and leave the coils out for now, running it on battery for the show. 

Ref the tank, this is not the original tank. That one is almost rusted through and could not be used. But this one is identical to the original as supplied by the factory to Mary. My old 1965 Bantam had the later tank with the round badges. I suppose it was either BSA using old stock, or if they are larger capacity maybe it was fitted for the RTW trip by BSA. See pic.

OBM-Feb-p19.jpg

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sunny
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August 26, 2021 - 9:34 am
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hi  Craig  the  older  D 1,3 & 5  coil  sets   donot  put  out   enuf   6  vt power  to run   a ht  coil  under   the  seat and  the  older  low or  high wattage rear  lamps       so  as  you say  it  will  do  till  you  get  the  1704    set   its  a  beter  system  anyway  apart  from  the  E seting   wich  shoud  only  be forgoten    it  ther

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Peterg
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August 26, 2021 - 8:20 pm
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The original D7 tanks were larger than the later 'jelly mould' tanks. 2.25 gallons against 1.8 I believe. They also have the benefit of allowing you to see the petrol level! Probably very helpful on a long run when you don't have a reserve tap

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Jim
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August 27, 2021 - 6:46 pm
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Hi Craig,

 

What a fascinating project!!

 

Are these the coils that you needIMG_20210827_184050_resized_20210827_064150672.jpg

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