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Electronic Ignition v Points
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BSA1965
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April 16, 2021 - 4:07 pm
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Hi 

Are electronic ignition systems preferred on competition bantam bikes to the points/coil systems. 

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GlenAnderson
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April 16, 2021 - 5:10 pm
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I don’t know. All I can tell you is that I struggled with the original setup on my D1 for the best part of twenty five years before fitting one of Rex Caunt’s systems and the difference is astonishing. Better starting, better running, better lights. 

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mike p5xbx
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April 16, 2021 - 6:12 pm
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Depends what you mean by competition
on race bikes yes as because it can have a retarded ign curve that allows more power at higher revs whereas the standard set-up is fixed

PVL-curve.gif

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D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

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BSA1965
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April 16, 2021 - 6:27 pm
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I was thinking trials rather than speed to be honest.

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Sponge
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April 16, 2021 - 8:41 pm
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It is just my opinion and at the risk of stirring up a volcano of abuse I would suggest that for trials you need the heavy flywheel effect unless your riding style involves riding flat out everywhere with the throttle wide open clouds of smoke and wheelspin flinging mud all over the place.  So this would imply that the original WIPAC flywheel ignition setup would be preferrable over a modern CGEI system. Especially on a single cylinder machine , like a Bantam, which is relatively straightforward to set up and maintain.

 However if you can find a CGEI system with a heavy flywheel then the reliability of EI might be a better choice. However....if it breaks during a competition there is little you can do about it other than carry parts and start to do the swap-shoe-shuffle.  If you are 'clean' halfway through the 4th day of the Scottish and your EI throws its teddy out of the pram you will be as sick as a parrot because you will be finished at that point. Whereas with the original points setup there is always something that you can do to keep going and stay in the game.  Bodges and roadside remedies are the mark of a seasoned Bantam owner. If I was competing a bantam in top level trials I would choose the flywheel and points and take every care to keep the water out. But thats my view.....its your bike ....your trophy on the mantlpiece and your choice.

There are some pretty tasty Bantam trials riders out there who may have different advice.....they will know and you might be able to encourage one to engage but they don't like giving away their methods and are as bad as surfers and yaughtsmen when it comes to keeping secrets.  I have known trials riders to disagree with each other purely out of competiive mischief !!

My own trials Bantam had a very special competition EI that was bespoke made for me by Martyn Adams of Serco Tiger Cub fame and a very good trials rider himself.  It was perfect.  Originally located in Keithley I believe Martyn is now in Oz or Kiwi or maybe South Africa, even the Falkland Islands r back in Yorkshire so you might be able to track him down through the Tiger Cub trials  fraternity.

Sponge

BSA1965 said
I was thinking trials rather than speed to be honest.  

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cocorico
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April 16, 2021 - 9:05 pm
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Ask Sammy Miller?

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Stoo63
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April 16, 2021 - 9:05 pm
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Search the Forum? The electronic v points debate is one of the most common (and most divisive) on the entire site, admittedly not focused on trials. Personally, I'd want to run as original a bike as possible. 

 '55 D3 Battery; '58 Square Four (project); '59 D1 direct lighting plunger; '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E; '91 GTR 1000;  '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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cocorico
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April 16, 2021 - 9:11 pm
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OK, I'll bite. ** Please log in to view **

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BSA1965
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April 16, 2021 - 10:31 pm
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Thanks for the replies and will take sponges advice and keep the points set up, I'm either easily persuaded or just like straight talking advice lol. Trials riding sounds a bit like fishermen not wanting to let on what bait they are using then!

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Sponge
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April 17, 2021 - 9:01 am
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I regret selling my trials Bantam  several years ago. It was a bad decision and whoever got that bike got a world beater that was genuine pre65 without all the modern adaptations.

Trials riding is a great sport and excellent fun but some are so competitive that they forget the fun element. I have witnessed some pretty shocking confrontations over really childish things...mainly inspired by jealousy and a desire to unbalance potential rivals. In the main good natured but there can be a rough edge to it as well.

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BantamBaz
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April 17, 2021 - 11:23 am
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You could of course keep the points & like many use them to trigger a transistor set up.

I & many others use a Gammatronix unit, relatively cheap, omits the condenser & virtually eliminates points wear.

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BSA1965
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April 17, 2021 - 11:51 am
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Yes I've seen these but according to their we site they are when a battery is in the mix, I'm just looking to have a direct spark from the mag/alternator. 

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Sponge
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April 17, 2021 - 1:29 pm
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My best advife is this: 

Keep it stock with the WIPAC flywheel etc. It givrs you direct ignition. Ride trials, live and breathe trials.  When you get to the point where you are loosing more competitions through ignition failures than through 'dabs' it will be time to consider CGEI. Until then invest your hard earned in the best tyres cos thats where your grip comes from and the best safety equipment - helmet, armour, boots and gloves etc. 

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Stoo63
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April 17, 2021 - 10:25 pm
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Depends if you're desperate to win or just want to enjoy riding an old bike in an unconventional environment.... If someone else doesn't like your forks, tell them where you'll shove them. Personally the only time I'd be interested in "winning" on a Bantam would be in the Bantam racing series against other Bantams. Even then I think that I'd be happy just to finish the race four or five times out of ten. B roads for me - probably being harrassed by lycra-clad clowns!

 '55 D3 Battery; '58 Square Four (project); '59 D1 direct lighting plunger; '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E; '91 GTR 1000;  '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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Sponge
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April 18, 2021 - 6:28 pm
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Yes thats the spirit. I was passed by a cyclist the other day whilst going up the long steep hill near here. The poor little D1 was getting a bit hot so I backed it down to about 15mph and let it do what if does best. The lycra clad 'perv' on his electric assisted pushbike went past in a cloud of sweat but he did go past.

To add insult to injury he must have bragged his little victory to the crowd at the bacon sarni wagon because by the time I got there he was gone but the crowd of entitled gore-tex clad range rover chelsea farmers were applauding me. 

One of these entitled yuppies went on to  explain to his girl/wife/partner/concubine that the reason the bantam was putting out so much smoke was because the valve guides were on the way out. He told me he had a friend who runs a garage who would fit new valve guides for me for a hundred quid or so. So now I am saving up for new valve guides....they must be failing cos I had to apply the brakes at 50mph on the way down the hill !!

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Stoo63
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April 18, 2021 - 8:20 pm
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I'm just searching for that valve guide topic in the FAQ. I know it's in their somewhere! I'm sure you could get it for less than 100.....

 '55 D3 Battery; '58 Square Four (project); '59 D1 direct lighting plunger; '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E; '91 GTR 1000;  '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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Sponge
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April 18, 2021 - 10:19 pm
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Fitting valve guides to a bantam is far outside of my workshop skills. I am happy with all the smoke so I think I will take it at risk and when the valve guides get so bad that the D1 will not run I will take it to SRM.

Does anybody know what the correct tappet settings are for a D1 bantam ?

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Nick_S
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April 18, 2021 - 10:31 pm
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Does the D1 not have stem seals, you could always try changing them first, using the old rope trick of course 😂

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Stoo63
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April 18, 2021 - 10:55 pm
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I changed the valve guides and stem seals on my D1 and found it much less smokey. It's not such a difficult job. Tappet settings depend on your paint code. Mist Green -4mm; Grey 6mm and Post Office Red a hefty 9mm! I think that was because the old telegram boys had so many stop/start trips causing extra stress on the valve train. But the mail still got through.....

 '55 D3 Battery; '58 Square Four (project); '59 D1 direct lighting plunger; '59 Tiger Cub; '60 5TA;  '76 FS1-E; '91 GTR 1000;  '97 Honda Sky SGX50.

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Maico490
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April 20, 2021 - 7:59 pm
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Whilst searching for up to date prices on Bantam valve guides I noticed that the cost of muffler bearings and piston return springs have gone through the roof.

New supplies must have all been on the ships held up in the Suez Canal

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