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Flat Battery....a ghost in my electrics⁷
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Sponge
Lancashire (A chip shop somewhere near Preston)
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February 26, 2021 - 6:37 pm
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So....here goes...

A D7 Bantam with an electrex world 12V electronic conversion. New motobatt 12v battery fuly charged with an accumate charger.

Tested electrics before start up and all lights are shini g full and bright...horn works nice etc

Started the bike and checked that thd lights are charging...yes when the revs go up the lighys glow brighter....all good. Noticed that when running with lights they are flickering (strobing very fast).

Stopped engine after about 2 minutes. Checked the lights......battery almost dead...hardly enough juice to light the pilot light and not enough to activate the horn. 

This is the 2nd time this has happened. I have checked battery polarity...no probs..all correct....has anybody got any idea whats going on here cos it has got me scratching my head big style...??

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cocorico
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February 26, 2021 - 9:11 pm
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Sounds like something very wrong somewhere. I have Motobatts on two bikes needing HD batteries for electric starters, one is a 850cc twin. They hold charge reliably for months on end. I think you need to check your loom, rectifier and regulator. I don't think you should see much change in lamp intensity or flicker if running through the battery. What value amp hour is the battery?

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Sponge
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February 26, 2021 - 10:17 pm
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cocorico said
Sounds like something very wrong somewhere. I have Motobatts on two bikes needing HD batteries for electric starters, one is a 850cc twin. They hold charge reliably for months on end. I think you need to check your loom, rectifier and regulator. I don't think you should see much change in lamp intensity or flicker if running through the battery. What value amp hour is the battery?  

Hi Coco, thanks for the response mate. Its a 12Volt - 9AH battery battery so when fully charged ought to be able to run the lights for a good hour at least. The battery holds its charge for months on end...except when I run the bike...then it goes flat in minutes. It even goes flat when thd lights are switched off. Very strange.

My initial suspicion is the regulator but it is definately working.....I will get it out in the daylight tomorrow and check everything again . Other than that I don't really know how to take this forward.

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Number6
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February 26, 2021 - 11:15 pm
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Need to do a parasitic drain test – disconnect battery 'live', insert an ammeter, then disconnect things until the current stops (zero on meter). When it stops, the thing you last disconnected is it.

But sounds like whatever's running the engine is killing the battery.

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

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Number6
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February 26, 2021 - 11:27 pm
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Is it this one?

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Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

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Lone Wolf
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February 27, 2021 - 1:06 am
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Wotcha.

I've had batteries that seem to be fully charged, but as soon as any load is put on 'em they fail.

 

^..^

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cocorico
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February 27, 2021 - 7:47 am
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Lone Wolf said
Wotcha.

I've had batteries that seem to be fully charged, but as soon as any load is put on 'em they fail.

Agreed, but you can check that by putting a load across the battery, such as a headlight. (hope you haven't said that in the video already...)

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GlenAnderson
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February 27, 2021 - 8:41 am
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Something must be switching to a dead short when the engine is running. It can only really be the regulator/rectifier. Unless you have been supplied with one that’s the opposite earth to what you were expecting, and so it’s trying to fight the battery when the engine is running. 

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Sponge
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February 27, 2021 - 9:34 am
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GlenAnderson said
Something must be switching to a dead short when the engine is running. It can only really be the regulator/rectifier. Unless you have been supplied with one that’s the opposite earth to what you were expecting, and so it’s trying to fight the battery when the engine is running.   

Hi Glen, thats a good point and worth checking. Would seem to describe the problem to a tee and a bit of a concern as I wired it up according to the instructions fron Electrex World. The batt is on charge again at present but I think I have a bit of forensic investigation to do. Mmmmm

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GlenAnderson
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February 27, 2021 - 10:06 am
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Run it up briefly with the battery disconnected and a meter on it, to see what polarity the reg/rec is kicking out. 

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Sponge
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February 27, 2021 - 6:46 pm
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Number6 said
Is it this one?

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Yes...thats the one. Runs really clean but ...the battery killer problem still persists. Once I get my MM back I will do some diagnostics. Both batteries ( new motobatts) that have been on this bike so far will not now hold a charge. Whatever this EI system is doing to them is pretty viscious. I am trying to recover them with the accumate. Not hopeful.

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Number6
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February 27, 2021 - 7:38 pm
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http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/imagex/misc/icon_lurker.gif

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

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cocorico
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February 28, 2021 - 7:59 am
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Sounds like a low resistance or dead short across the battery to absolutely kill it. Either of which would cause collateral damage somewhere, I would have thought. Rec/reg would be a prime suspect for me, assuming the outgoing circuit from the battery is fused.

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sunny
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February 28, 2021 - 8:25 am
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to  me  the  thing  is    we can get  cheap   Reg# Rec  &   stuff    off  the     internet     [  spec  given  ]   for  les  than  a fiver    and  charge   £45   after  planting  in  a  posh  looking  case     is  wy  i  try  to  keep  away  from   this  kind  of   kit      seems  hard to stop  the  ripoff   

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Sponge
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March 1, 2021 - 11:57 am
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sunny said
to  me  the  thing  is    we can get  cheap   Reg# Rec  &   stuff    off  the     internet     [  spec  given  ]   for  les  than  a fiver    and  charge   £45   after  planting  in  a  posh  looking  case     is  wy  i  try  to  keep  away  from   this  kind  of   kit      seems  hard to stop  the  ripoff     

HI Sunny, there is a lot of wisdom in your words my friend. That D7 ran happily with the WIPAC electrics for decades. If it ain't broke ....Don't fix it !!

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SpacedMarine
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March 1, 2021 - 6:52 pm
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Sponge said

HI Sunny, there is a lot of wisdom in your words my friend. That D7 ran happily with the WIPAC electrics for decades. If it ain't broke ....Don't fix it !!  

But it's got an advance curve!!!👍🏼so you can rev the knackers off it and not blow up on the overrun 😁

Maybe it's not regulating and over charging I've had that problem luckily after getting through a couple of cheap batteries the motobatt proved quite resilient and after recharging with my oxford trickle charger thing has been right as rain since fixing the issue.I got a "Lucas branded" reg/ŕec of Ebay and it seems to have done the trick 🤞🏽 dont want to jinx it.Good luck in your endeavours anyhow sponge 🤞🏽👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

What's 7/16 in mm again?

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Number6
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March 1, 2021 - 9:01 pm
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What I don't understand is if it's a dead short as it sounds to be ('killed' 2 batteries), why isn't smoke pouring out of the the wiring?

Mike H --

Murphy's 4th law of motion states that any small object that is accidentally dropped will immediately hide itself under a larger object.

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mike p5xbx
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March 1, 2021 - 11:31 pm
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Number6 said
why isn't smoke pouring out of the the wiring?  

Im guessing the rectifier diodes have gone short circuit and feeding the battery AC
hence the flickering lights in original post

D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

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Sponge
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March 2, 2021 - 7:20 am
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This is all good advice and much appreciated guys...it provides some food for thought and saves my head from being worn away by fruitless scratching. Having re-checked every connection and with a lower rated fuse...my first line of investigation is to push the bike outside with my CO2 fire extinguisher and run it up to see whats getting hot....as you say something should be getting fried somewhere and that will give some clues. If that yields no further information then until I can collect my Multimeter I am restricted to lightbulbs,  test wires and known working parts. Mike's theory about the regulator feeding AC to the battery would explain the strobing at higher revs and to an extent the current drain and flat batteries that then wont take a charge.  The mystery of the ' clapped out' batteries remains but taking one thing at a time.  I dont want to risk yet another new battery so my intent is to source a reputable branded regulator and swap it out to see what happens. 

I will report back once I have done some more tests.

 

mike p5xbx said

Im guessing the rectifier diodes have gone short circuit and feeding the battery AC
hence the flickering lights in

original 

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cocorico
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March 2, 2021 - 8:25 am
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mike p5xbx said
Im guessing the rectifier diodes have gone short circuit and feeding the battery AC
hence the flickering lights in original post  

Good spot.

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