A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
Guest

Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
DIY Electronic Ignition?
Avatar
mike p5xbx
E-Sussex
Forum User
Site Member
Forum Posts: 1398
Member Since:
June 15, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
21
October 11, 2018 - 1:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

_Paul_ said
Thanks Mike,
There seems to be quite a bit on the net about these kits but nothing meaningful about evolving it into a full contactless system.
Paul  

turned out to be relativity easy just a Hall switch, resistor and Transistor
to make the velleman into fully electronic ignition for about £20
the hardest part will be making a rotor and magnet to fit the on the points cam shaft
BUT I still will not be giving up on the simple Points and Condenser any time soon laugh
[Permission to view this media is denied]

[Permission to view this image is denied]

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
  • sp_PlupImage Velleman-6Volt.jpg(99 KB)

D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

Avatar
_Paul_
NEWPORT
Forum User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 62
Member Since:
April 30, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
22
October 11, 2018 - 10:09 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Marvelous work! thank you.

Would you mind if I copied your circuit?  I have already built a clone of the Pamco system, and that too needs a rotor but with two magnets, it works well on the bench but unlike the Velleman transistor ignition it simply acts as a switch and does not produce a nice fat spark like your setup.

[Permission to view this image is denied]
[Permission to view this image is denied]
[Permission to view this image is denied]

Regards

 

Paul

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_20180919_200133-2976x2232.jpg(1007 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_20180919_200108-2976x2232.jpg(542 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_20180919_200152-2232x2976.jpg(869 KB)
Avatar
mike p5xbx
E-Sussex
Forum User
Site Member
Forum Posts: 1398
Member Since:
June 15, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
23
October 11, 2018 - 11:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

_Paul_ said
Marvelous work! thank you.

Would you mind if I copied your circuit? 
Paul  

you are welcome thats why I did it as you already had the velleman built, would like to see what you come up with regards the magnet rotor for the bantam
I have been thinking of trying one of the IGBT transistors circuits for some time but I dont think you can really drive one directly from a hall sensor.
Next project for a rainy day

D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

Avatar
sunny
Norfolk
Forum User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 1035
Member Since:
January 9, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
24
October 12, 2018 - 10:17 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

help  i  need  an  ancer       WI  ARE  peaple    goning  for   NEGERTIV    earths       I  just  cant  find the  ancer   in  my   books  i do know  bantams   have used    neg    but   on  that  system       it   didnot  mater         regards keth

Avatar
not henpecked
Near J 11 of M42
Forum User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 225
Member Since:
February 7, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
25
October 12, 2018 - 11:14 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Why are people going for negative earths? This is my reason and also 12 volts.

The wiring on my B175 when I bought it was 6 volt positive earth with a Rec/Reg and indicators fitted. Although it ran OK the wiring was like a technicolour rats nest and possibly suseptable to failure. Talking to other people with British steeds they said since your going to rewire go 12 volt negative earth, and here's why?

1 Electrical items are easier to get since the industry satandard is now 12 volts. You can just pop down your local Halfords for bulbs if needs be!

2 LED bulbs are invariable negative earth.

3 If I fit a Sat nav - it's 12 volt negative earth.

My rewiring also now includes a wired earth to all lights and engine except the horn push - hmm thinking cap on for that one. I too have fitted electronic ignition module using the points as the trigger. Mine was "preowned" and bought off Ebay. As an aside I bench tested it and got a whopping spark across a plug with the gap at 2mm!

So there you have it; although my first bantam did run perfectly well on 6 volt positive earth.

B175, being updated & now much closer to completion. Honda XBR 500, and ....... Suzuki Burgman 200 scoot! Nicknamed "The hair dryer" - by me I hasted to add; & great storage under the seat when you get to your destination.

Avatar
cocorico
Central France
Moderator
Moderator
Forum Posts: 2532
Member Since:
June 23, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
26
October 12, 2018 - 12:00 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

sunny said
...WI  ARE  peaple    goning  for   NEGERTIV    earths   ...

I think it's just down to 'progress' Keith. Bantams were made when battery technology was not as developed as now, so a 12V battery would have been far too big to fit, now it's (comparatively) easy to find a small 12V battery, with the bonus that the current through the wiring loom is reduced, so also reducing the risk of fire. You could stick to  +ve earth with 12V, but as not henpecked says, negative earth is the industry standard, with spares more easily available - mainly LEDs (more progress!). However, it is still debatable whether -ve or +ve earth is better from a corrosion prevention point of view!

Have a look ** Please log in to view ** for some more debate on it.

Avatar
not henpecked
Near J 11 of M42
Forum User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 225
Member Since:
February 7, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
27
October 12, 2018 - 2:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi All

Refering to Cocorico's comments one of my friends who was the maintenance manager at Peugeot cars at Coventry, and my brother who was a facility engineer at Land Rover both said, it was to minimise body work corrosion - anodes and cathodes methinks. So now you know why they car industry went to negative earth. The 12 volt battery I am fitting is much smaller than the original but it's great what you can do with old coat hanger wire bent to shape.

This particular topic is of interest to me especially since fitting a Hall effect trigger would eliminate the points. Keep the info coming.

Further to my last post my first Bantam was a 150 plunger with a magneto ignition, and AC coils for lighting. More food for thought .....?

B175, being updated & now much closer to completion. Honda XBR 500, and ....... Suzuki Burgman 200 scoot! Nicknamed "The hair dryer" - by me I hasted to add; & great storage under the seat when you get to your destination.

Avatar
_Paul_
NEWPORT
Forum User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 62
Member Since:
April 30, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
28
October 12, 2018 - 3:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

This is my aluminium test rotor, I thought perhaps something along the same lines but with a hardened (tool steel?) centre to match the Bantam's crank taper?

I would prefer something simpler to construct and have considered a "slip over" Acetal/Delrin item not unlike the ones found in some commercial aftermarket ignitions, but I dont think the D14-B175 cam lobe is sufficiently pronounced to get enough purchase.

[Permission to view this image is denied]
[Permission to view this image is denied]
[Permission to view this image is denied]

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_20181012_145107-2232x2976-1.jpg(525 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_20181012_145057-2232x2976-1.jpg(542 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_20181012_145036-2232x2976.jpg(528 KB)
Avatar
_Paul_
NEWPORT
Forum User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 62
Member Since:
April 30, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
29
October 12, 2018 - 3:55 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

This is a Youtube video the current IGBT- Hall Latch prototype running on the bench being powered by a 12v battery and with a test LED in place of the coil, I have had the same prototype working on the Bantam's 6v system and whilst it produces a good spark it's not as strong as the one from the Velleman kit which is pretty much what you might expect.

** Please log in to view **

[Permission to view this image is denied]
[Permission to view this image is denied]
[Permission to view this image is denied]
[Permission to view this image is denied]

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_20181012_145146-2232x2976.jpg(574 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_20181012_145943-2232x2976.jpg(699 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_20181012_145155-2232x2976.jpg(529 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_20181012_150007-2232x2976.jpg(594 KB)
Avatar
mike p5xbx
E-Sussex
Forum User
Site Member
Forum Posts: 1398
Member Since:
June 15, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
30
October 12, 2018 - 5:12 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

that look very promising, but you may need to think about the dwell angle which is why I used a Unipolar digital device and a 2cm long magnet
its been the small taper fit on the crank that has been bothering me quite a bit of inertia when the crank is spinning or suddenly stops, stalled engine
and the heat from crank with alloy or synthetic rotor effecting the fit
what I would really like to make is a self generating electronic ignition
never liked battery operated things
my Bantams all start without a battery

D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

Avatar
_Paul_
NEWPORT
Forum User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 62
Member Since:
April 30, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
31
October 12, 2018 - 5:53 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

It would be nice to get away from using the points cam taper and I did think about doing something with the alternator rotor instead.

The dwell angle appears to be a whopping 180* as the points cam keeps them open for fully half of its rotation with the points set at the recommended 0.012".

Back to using the points cam/taper I wonder if a lightweight non magnet rotor were used with some kind of lightweight "chopper" type rotor working with a gear tooth sensor?

Regards

Paul

Avatar
BantamBaz
Forum User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 6
Member Since:
September 15, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
32
October 12, 2018 - 6:05 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Good evening ,

I've been avidly following the threads on this topic, all very interesting, thanks to those who contribute.

Making my own system is, I'm afraid, a bit beyond me these days but there is a lot of usable info here for me.

I think I'll go the route of a Gammatronix or similar.

Henpecked mentioned a smaller battery that he was using, do you have any further info please?

This is my first venture with a bantam & I am really enjoying the forum content.

Thanks again.

Barrie

Avatar
not henpecked
Near J 11 of M42
Forum User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 225
Member Since:
February 7, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
33
October 13, 2018 - 9:38 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi Barrie

The battery I bought is used on Honda CG 125's. As yet I haven't finished wiring the Bantam up and was very close to completion until I decided to do some acrobatics on my scooter (Hair dryer) and chucked it down the road. So, the scooter has taken priority and is nearly completed to be back on the road next week. Next week it back to the Bantam. Today I will take some pics of how I have mounted the battery fo all to see.

B175, being updated & now much closer to completion. Honda XBR 500, and ....... Suzuki Burgman 200 scoot! Nicknamed "The hair dryer" - by me I hasted to add; & great storage under the seat when you get to your destination.

Avatar
_Paul_
NEWPORT
Forum User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 62
Member Since:
April 30, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
34
October 15, 2018 - 6:53 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Untested as yet but this what "mike p5xbx"'s trigger for the Velleman Transistor Ignition looks like condensed to a size that should easily fit under the points cover.

[Permission to view this image is denied]
[Permission to view this image is denied]
[Permission to view this image is denied]

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_20181015_181527-2232x2976.jpg(430 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_20181015_181544-2232x2976.jpg(522 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_20181015_181707-2232x2976.jpg(504 KB)
Avatar
not henpecked
Near J 11 of M42
Forum User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 225
Member Since:
February 7, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
35
October 15, 2018 - 10:10 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi Barrie

See attached photos of the 12 volt battery and my wire coat hanger holder. Note the 2 strips of rubber each side of the battery carrier made from and old fan belt and glued in position. The springs were rescued off an empty discarded printer cartridge. The original spring wire battery retainer went missing/scrapped/corroded to nothing before I bought my Bantam.[Permission to view this image is denied]
[Permission to view this image is denied]
[Permission to view this image is denied]
[Permission to view this image is denied]
[Permission to view this image is denied]

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_0136.JPG(373 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_0138.JPG(564 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_0139.JPG(514 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_0140.JPG(543 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage IMG_0141.JPG(356 KB)

B175, being updated & now much closer to completion. Honda XBR 500, and ....... Suzuki Burgman 200 scoot! Nicknamed "The hair dryer" - by me I hasted to add; & great storage under the seat when you get to your destination.

Avatar
BantamBaz
Forum User
Club Member
Forum Posts: 6
Member Since:
September 15, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
36
October 15, 2018 - 10:43 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Thanks Don, looks a good plan.

To be honest I've not even looked far in the battery box yet. I bought by Bantam a few days before I set off for a couple of months away in our motorhome. Therefore the priority was to fit a ground anchor in the garage. Whilst I'm away I'm doing some forward planning for later on.

I had tracked down a gel battery that I thought would fit the bill & could be fitted any way around.

[Permission to view this media is denied]

Thanks again,looking forward to more forum & Bantam tinkering.

Barrie

ps.Is it possible or ethicsl to PM on this forum?

Avatar
cocorico
Central France
Moderator
Moderator
Forum Posts: 2532
Member Since:
June 23, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
37
October 16, 2018 - 8:17 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

BantamBaz said
...Is it possible or ethicsl to PM on this forum?  

Certainly - all you need to do is to click on the icon with the envelope (2nd from the left, top right of the post of the person you want to PM to). Or go to the top of the page, click on the 'Inbox' icon towards the right (again, with an envelope) and go from there.

In many cases it is better to PM than to post, mainly if you are going 'off-subject' or want a less public contact.

Avatar
mike p5xbx
E-Sussex
Forum User
Site Member
Forum Posts: 1398
Member Since:
June 15, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
38
October 16, 2018 - 4:16 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

_Paul_ said
Untested as yet but this what it looks like condensed to a size that should easily fit under the points cover.
  

very neat thumbs-up
look forward to seeing it running and how you have made and attached the magnet rotor

D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 98

Currently Online: barffy, Tezza175, JulianS
24 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Cornish Rooster: 3304

Anderzander: 3210

bart: 3128

Sprung Chicken: 2650

David Dale: 2493

Mags 1: 2257

Munchkin: 2219

Katj: 2139

Blue Heeler: 1950

HowD1: 1941

Newest Members:

_1304

Forum Stats:

Groups: 9

Forums: 45

Topics: 11307

Posts: 97153

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 510

Members: 2362

Moderators: 4

Admins: 3

Administrators: Piquet, JMD, Rusty Floater

Moderators: cocorico, Derek's D5, D3Major150, xcgb