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Ibayorkie's D1
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lbayorkie
Otley, West Yorkshire
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March 11, 2018 - 8:06 pm
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I have now attached images including an extra one of the  brake side in case it helps. An observation I made is that there doesnt seem to be much of the axle sticking out of the frame to fit the nut onto.[Permission to view this image is denied]
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  • sp_PlupImage Speedo-Side.jpg(177 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage Speedo-Side-2.jpg(182 KB)
  • sp_PlupImage Brake-Side.jpg(156 KB)
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Mick W
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March 11, 2018 - 8:49 pm
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Look her to check your individual items against the listed items.  I know nothing about the D1 or D3 but hope this helps.  Looks like you have the wrong nut on the outer. ** Please log in to view **

Mick

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lbayorkie
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March 11, 2018 - 8:59 pm
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Thanks Mick, not sure if this will stop the wobble but you may be right about the nut. Hopefully will get input from others.

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cocorico
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March 12, 2018 - 8:09 am
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Not a D1, but this shows the configuration on my '56 swinger D3:

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  • sp_PlupImage D3-speedodrive.JPG(166 KB)
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Blue Heeler
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March 12, 2018 - 9:41 am
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Alan,

Here`s the parts list for your Rigid D1 rear hub etc... ** Please log in to view **

Rear wheel spindles have been known to break on early Rigid D1`s,you`ll confirm status of yours when you remove the rear wheel.

To me,it sounds like it`s either been assembled with knackered bearings(new sealed ones are cheap as chips),or they`ve missed the spacer out...yes I`m afraid it does happen,I had to totally rebuild a nice shiny "restored" D1 with around a hundred issues thanks to the "restorer`s" efforts...and it had no spacer between the bearings and they`d put the shot bearings back in.That bike was all painted up nicely with stainless fasteners etc,but it was lethal.No MOT required,ahem!

It could be that inner nuts haven`t been tightened properly.There also may be non OE spacers and washers used by the looks of it.Difficult to see because the bracket bolt is in the way on the speedo side photo.

Blue(owner of Rigid D1) 

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lbayorkie
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March 12, 2018 - 2:28 pm
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The chap who restored it was a life long biker and Im sure he knew what he was doing. I am really hoping its the inner (spindle lock) nuts, it does feel a bit like a push bike when the bearing cones have gone slack.  

I really need to take the wheel off and take a look. Im not really familiar with motorcycles- I got this one because I fancied having a go and its a simple machine to start off with. Once its off I will at least be able to see if sealed bearings have been fitted, by the way is the internal spacer still needed for sealed bearings (probably a silly question!)

Really appreciate your input.

Alan

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Blue Heeler
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March 12, 2018 - 2:57 pm
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"The chap who restored it was a life long biker and Im sure he knew what he was doing."

...but was he a life-long mechanic 😉

Wibbly-wobbly rear wheel is not good is it.....with zero miles under its belt since rebuild.

Rear drive chain adjuster nut should`ve been nipped up after the rear wheel spindle nuts were tightened.Drive-side adjuster is not sat central either,clamp`s just rattlin` in the breeze,and along with the spring washer and nut,is just waiting to go awol.Can`t see the other side.

Quite happy to talk you through rear wheel removal and hub inspection if you want.I`ve just finished assembling a springer hub,very similar.

Yes you`re spot on,bit like a pushbike in principle,what with the inner nuts.Complete bearings rather than cup-balls-cone affair,nothing should move for a very long time,quality sealed bearings can last for ever...unlike some of the bearings on the pushbikes I`ve hammered around my garden track.Avoid potholes and sunken drain covers because the only suspension you have at the rear is your tyre,don`t over-inflate that.Wheel bearings will take more of a hammering with a Rigid D1 than any other Bantam model.

Centre spacer definitely required as a distance piece between the two inner bearing races. 

You`ve got a little beauty there,I`m sure you`ll have a lot of fun riding her,once she`s safe.Well spotted with the rear wheel.

As one of the sayings goes "BSA Bantam: Making mechanics out of riders since 1948"....or something like that,haha

Regards

Blue

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mike p5xbx
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March 12, 2018 - 4:26 pm
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lbayorkie said
The chap who restored it was a life long biker and Im sure he knew what he was doing.
  

Hmmm
apart from any wobble, something very wrong with rear wheel
the brake side wheel nut looks as if it is only engaging by a few threads
Dangerously unsafe

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D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

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Roy2cycle
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March 12, 2018 - 4:46 pm
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That spindle looks to short for the job...eeeeek

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lbayorkie
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March 12, 2018 - 5:52 pm
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As I mentioned in my initial post the (lack of) engagement of the nut on the spindle was a concern. Not sure though how the spindle possibly could be too short, I assume this was a standard item- or did it vary by model?

 

Alan

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Peterg
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March 12, 2018 - 6:55 pm
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You should have a full width of the nut each side of the spindle. If you have too much on one side one of the wheel bearings probably hasn't been fully pressed home and may be loose in the hub.

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Blue Heeler
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March 12, 2018 - 7:32 pm
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Don`t panic on the wheel nut situation folks,they are sleeved jobbies,plenty of thread purchase on Alan`s spindle.They are not like later Bantams where the poor old spindle threads get damaged because of sitting in the swing-arm fork(I`ve had to use a thread file on dozens of those,D7/14/Cubs etc).

On the D1 Rigid,that concave section to the end of the nut does not have to be filled with wheel spindle thread,the sleeved part of the nut takes care of that.

That`s not to say there are not incorrect thicker washers/spacers fitted,but hopefully the all-important central spacer between the wheel bearings is there....and all that needs doing is the speedo g/box side inner nut needs nipping up,otherwise looks like a shot bearing.

Blue(D1 Rigid owner)

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Blue Heeler
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March 12, 2018 - 7:46 pm
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lbayorkie said
As I mentioned in my initial post the (lack of) engagement of the nut on the spindle was a concern. Not sure though how the spindle possibly could be too short, I assume this was a standard item- or did it vary by model?

 

Alan  

BSA had some breakages,not surprising with the diameter of that Spindle and the battering they took on our old British roads.They then modified it...I`m guessing ...changing radius on stepped section?....and increased the diameter?...not sure exactly,haven`t had my Rigid out for a while.....only the D3.

Munchkin had a rear spindle snap on her plunger,if my memory serves.
 

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lbayorkie
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March 12, 2018 - 10:18 pm
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I took a look at the receipts for parts used in the restoration. One of them shows 'spacers f/r' and another 'rear wheel bearings 35 x 12 x 10' which I assume refers to caged rather than sealed bearings. This seems to be a good quality restoration so hopefully its just the inner nut on speedo side that needs tweaking. Do I need to remove the wheel to do this? 

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Blue Heeler
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March 12, 2018 - 10:48 pm
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Yeah great bike you have there,would love to see more pics.

Either the restorer,in the true spirit of originality,decided to fit open-sided bearings and utilise the existing grease nipple in the centre of the hub for future lubing.....or went with modern sealed,maintenance-free examples.It would be handy for you to know!

Yes you need to remove the wheel because the nuts in question are hidden behind the speedo drive(and brake plate on the other side......more on that in a min).I`ve put the parts diagram up again for you,hopefully the restorer`s fitted Nos 39...but 41,42(your all-important spacer between the two open/sealed bearings),13 and 10&9,are the all-important 5 items 

10&9 are hopefully the ones that are going to take up your slack,if everything else is in order.  9 is the lock nut you are going to have to break away from 10 to enable you to tighten 10....but,but,you have to remove the brake back plate from the other side to access 22.That`s the other side spindle nut that you are locking the inner races and spacers together with...if all the washers and bearings are in their proper places(bearings knocked home properly) and nothing is missing.

If while tightening the brake side and speedo side inner spindle nuts against each other,you start to experience the spindle no longer turning freely,then something is missing/misaligned....it means you are stressing the bearings sideways,inner race wanting to move away from the outer race,not the sideways loading you need on a plain ball bearing.Stop!

The play you`re currently experiencing is due to one of the following..

a)knackered bearing

b)inner spindle nuts loose

c)parts missing,and restorer has compensated for experiencing the bearings nipping up, by backing the nuts off....or was tired/confused and treated it like your pushbike cone/cup/ball analogy you used earlier?

 Hopefully not a broken spindle.

** Please log in to view **

If you choose to remedy it yourself and get stuck and I`m available,I have both the old and new version of Skype I`ve used to help folk in their workshops....at a suitable time.

 

Blue

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lbayorkie
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March 13, 2018 - 1:31 pm
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Thanks for your input Blue. As I said Im pretty certain its the inner spindle nuts, the person who restored the bike has done a pretty good job and as his intention was to keep as 'original' as possible pretty much everything apart from the rear light is 1950 specification. I have the receipts for all the parts and I can see there has been no skimping. I just need to find the time to take off the back wheel now, probably not for a month or so.

I will be back in touch as/when no doubt!

 

Alan

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Blue Heeler
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March 13, 2018 - 3:40 pm
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You`re welcome Alan,perhaps catch up with your story as in unfolds at a later date.

Look forward to some pics too.

Blue

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davidwb
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April 6, 2018 - 3:46 pm
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I think that the nut securing the speedo gearbox onto the wheel is a stepped nut with most of it being buried within the gearbox drive aperture. Without taking mine to bits I cannot be sure. It looks like a simple nut has been used on yours which would bear on the outer wall of the gearbox and so restrict it. The gearbox should actually turn freely on the axle if the speedo drive cable is disconnected.

David.

Una, my Dad's original 1949 D1.

Ariel 350 Red Hunter.

Moto Guzzi V7 Classic, for traveling to places a bit faster.

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two-stroke
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April 6, 2018 - 10:36 pm
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nope

hole is same size as spindel

should be clamped tite to spacer

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jolon1
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April 7, 2018 - 6:34 pm
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You will have to take the wheel off to investigate further. The above recommendations, are of course good ones. It may have been a good restoration but, maybe the spindle has snapped after the restoration. If everything is tightened up hopefully this is not your problem. 

D7 & D1 Racer

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