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D1 53 Plunger Lucas restoration
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cocorico
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October 25, 2018 - 7:45 am
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Marbellous... tip-my-hat rofl

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Martin_uk
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October 26, 2018 - 3:32 pm
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Started again on the engine but a bit of a set back.

 

Soaked engine in parafin for a week and used a copper mallet to knock through generator side crank shaft.

 

Cases came apart but cracked 🙁

 

They were very seized.

 

Now looking for cases with BD2L prefix if possible or engine.

 

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1953 D1 Plunger Lucas

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mike p5xbx
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October 26, 2018 - 5:02 pm
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Where did they crack
it is possible to repair cases with Tig welding

D? - D10- D14 Bantams 350 AJS -500 Triumph http://bsanotru.....lfire.com/

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Martin_uk
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October 26, 2018 - 8:42 pm
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mike p5xbx said
Where did they crack
it is possible to repair cases with Tig welding  

It is a possibility if I can't find an alternative

1953 D1 Plunger Lucas

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Martin_uk
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October 26, 2018 - 8:44 pm
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Some progress on rear wheel and now finished[Permission to view this image is denied]
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1953 D1 Plunger Lucas

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Martin_uk
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October 26, 2018 - 8:49 pm
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The crankshaft and housing were very seized, the powder is the corroded ally I scraped off[Permission to view this image is denied]
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1953 D1 Plunger Lucas

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Martin_uk
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October 27, 2018 - 1:05 pm
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The case probably cracked as I was prising it apart.

 

I avoided the crankcase sealing faces and levered againt front and rear mounting sections.

 

Probably should have soaked for longer and tried putting in an oven to help break the seized parts.

 

I will see if it can be welded.

 

To add to problems, now fully cleaned can see the chain has broken at some stage anf generator housing cracked as well 🙁

 

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1953 D1 Plunger Lucas

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Martin_uk
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October 27, 2018 - 1:12 pm
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Does any one know whether these are used to feed petroil to seals/bearings.

 

Casting looks like designed to connect, but does not appear to be drilled through

 

If I get case welded need to consider whether to redrill.

 

Maybe used on earlier models?[Permission to view this image is denied]
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1953 D1 Plunger Lucas

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thornebt
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October 27, 2018 - 5:13 pm
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On my 1955 D1 this hole (in one crankcase only) goes through to between the main bearing and the oil seal.  Cheers.  Bruce.

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GlenAnderson
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October 27, 2018 - 7:54 pm
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Yes, that’s how the petroil mix feeds the main bearings on early engines, before the factory swapped to using the gearbox oil to do the job. One of the popular mods, back in the day, was to open them out slightly and chamfer/countersink the hole slightly too. 

To be honest, the possibility of successfully welding up that damage is slim; and that’s if you get away without needing subsequent machining to correct any distortion. You’re much better off tracking down a better set of cases, even if they’re the bike’s original ones. 

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GlenAnderson
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October 27, 2018 - 8:14 pm
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That’s not new damage, IMHO, it’s probably what saw the bike parked up in the first place. 

You need to sit down and take stock of the situation. Those cases are scrap. You need to decide whether originality is the most important thing to you, or whether rideability/useability would trump that now that you know so much of the original engine is beyond repair. A Lucas equipped D1 is a nice thing, but as you’re finding out, spares and support for them is pretty thin. There were lots of little detail differences throughout the early years of production and, in 1953, only some of the better improvements had taken place. Personally, in your shoes, I’d hunt down a really late (ie 1960s GPO) D1 engine, and fit a  D3 head/barrel and Rex Caunt ignition/generator unit to it. That way you’ve still got a D1 engine number for the rivet-counters, but you get all the improvements in bearing, seal and oiling the later engines have that the early ones don’t. I’ve ridden (and pushed) a 1953 Wipac equipped D1 for over 40 years, so you have my sympathies. laugh

If originality is paramount though, and there’s nothing wrong in that if it’s what you want, then you need to be prepared to invest both time and money into finding the bits you need. 

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Mags 1
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October 27, 2018 - 8:57 pm
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Looks like it could be water expansion damage, frost got in possibly, it would take a fair bit of work to get it solid again and I doubt you'd ever be able to conceal such TIG weld work, especially in such a vulnerable place.

Four now on the road and at least several in bits.

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swalsh58
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October 27, 2018 - 10:01 pm
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I agree with Glen above, I think that is beyond economic repair. If it’s a bike you want to ride rather than retain originality, then put a D14 or B175 engine in it. If you want to keep most originality then go for a late D1 engine, because finding a Lucas D1 won’t be easy

Current bikes......1958 D5, and a 77 Suzuki GT250 being rebuilt. I have a 74 Kawasaki KH400 in the queue, along with a 58 Tiger Cub and a 1980 Honda CB400N. A 1978 Honda CB125S on the road and  I currently ride a 2011 Harley Davidson 883 Sportster

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October 28, 2018 - 11:22 am
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Is it the original crankcase or a replacement?

If it`s not the original,then I`d do as already suggested,source another set of cases,they are usually readily available and low priced.

If you fancy tackling the job yourself,then totally degrease both crankcase halves,crankshaft and cylinder/head etc. Use a stainless wire brush to avoid ferrous contamination. Vee out crack inside and out...1/4 depth of total alloy thickness both sides....so half thickness in total.Bolt crankcases together,with crank,cylinder&cyl head.

Then heat whole lump,use welding gloves to protect hands....and use one of the DIY methods,loads shown on youtube,to weld it up.

I`m a qualified welder,but never touched alloy when in the trade,but when I left the trade I bought some Lumiweld rods from Canada and using Propane I had left over from a British Steel contract(cutting),I welded up several damaged motorcycle components.I should think welding rods have come a long way in the 30-odd years since,hopefully.Previous to that,I took crankcases to a chap in Nottm with no fingers!....best welder in the country...charged £30.Not sure of cost nowadays,but there should be someone in Surrey that`s up to the job.

Blue

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Martin_uk
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October 28, 2018 - 1:43 pm
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Appreciate comments and advice on other topics and now have another question 🙂

The big end was seized and have freed off but will need replacement.

To get to it will need to remove the flywheel cover plates which are held in place  by centre punched marks.

Initial thought is to  drill these out, but would appreciate any advice on this.

Thanks

 

Martin

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1953 D1 Plunger Lucas

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cocorico
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October 28, 2018 - 3:59 pm
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They usually fall off of their own accord! They have been discussed frequently (google flywheel plates site:bsabantamclub.com/forum). If you drill or grind a couple out, you may be able to 'pop' the rest out. Quite a few members have dispensed with them completely with no apparent detriment.

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Martin_uk
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October 29, 2018 - 9:08 am
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swalsh58 said
I agree with Glen above, I think that is beyond economic repair. If it’s a bike you want to ride rather than retain originality, then put a D14 or B175 engine in it. If you want to keep most originality then go for a late D1 engine, because finding a Lucas D1 won’t be easy  

Thanks for suggestions.

What are the other implications in fitting a D14 or B175 engine?

Does the D1 plunger frame need to be modified?

I have a colleague who's friend is a specialist welder, so will let him take a look to see if case can be saved, if not will start the hunt and see what comes up 🙂

1953 D1 Plunger Lucas

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swalsh58
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October 29, 2018 - 9:24 am
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Every Bantam engine will fit in every Bantam frame without modifying the frame. Don't, whatever you do, modify the frame if you want a road legal vehicle and it isn't already registered with DVLA.

Current bikes......1958 D5, and a 77 Suzuki GT250 being rebuilt. I have a 74 Kawasaki KH400 in the queue, along with a 58 Tiger Cub and a 1980 Honda CB400N. A 1978 Honda CB125S on the road and  I currently ride a 2011 Harley Davidson 883 Sportster

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October 29, 2018 - 10:47 am
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Last one I did,used a small sharp chisel to knock back against the spread metal from the centre dots,being careful not to damage plates,and the activity of going around the flywheel doing that,loosened an area enough to slide a screwdriver under.

A VERY powerful magnet may be another way of popping tin plates out once you`ve removed the obstructing metal spread.

Some people use a dremel  with grinding attachment. shedbuiltdave on youtube covers D1 crank rebuild.

Like many,I didn`t bother refitting my covers.

Blue

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Martin_uk
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October 29, 2018 - 9:05 pm
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I have removed the bearings and found that holes are drilled but were solid with crud.

 

I used a drill to clear it out.

 

Not hopeful on repairing cases, but you never know and as they appear to be original to the bike, at least worth asking specialist.

 

Meanwhile on the look out for D1 Lucas replacements 🙂

1953 D1 Plunger Lucas

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