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1951 Bantam D1 - ISDT Gold Medal Winner
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Urbanghost
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September 19, 2018 - 10:10 pm
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I have come into possession of this bike as detailed in my intro post.  The bike was registered in 1951 and entered in the 1951 and 1952 ISDT time trial races.  The rider Fitzroy Allen went on to win a gold medal in the 1952 ISDT in austria riding for 6 days on this bike.  The bike was put in a garage after the race and has been there ever since. I purchased the bike from his daughter. It still has all the things he used in the race on the bike, number pates, gas cylinder for pumping up tyres, spare spokes and cables routed ready for use.  Even has spare gaskets in the map case on the tank.  There is an extra tool box on left side and on the right side there is a small external tank for oil, the wheels have hand release nuts.  On the major parts of the bike there are dabs of white paint with numbers written on them which I have been told they did so they could see if you changed any of the parts during the 6 days of racing. It has a competition head on the engine. Also noticed that the forks are back to front.  Is there any reason for this?  Did they do this for racing? This is what I have found out thats on the bike so far just having a quick look when picking up the bike.

Only have a few pics at moment been dark when I get home from work, Hoping to get some tomorrow and I will post better ones.

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Been advised to keep bike as it is.  So Next job is get it running and then possibly clean it, but will need some advice on how much to clean it etc.

So enjoy the pics and I will keep you updated as i do it.

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cocorico
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September 20, 2018 - 9:57 am
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Cleaning will depend a lot on whether the bike will run without too much attention. If the seals turn out to need replacement you will need the engine out - and it's a lot easier to work on a clean engine than a dirty one!

I'd say, gently wash off loose dirt from the bike without too much rubbing, light rust will usually come off using a nylon scrubbing pad or a very fine wire wool with some light oil on it. A wipe over with waxoyl or similar when you have the appearance you are happy with will then protect it.

I have a 1950 D1 engine which had never been apart, but started with the original seals, etc. Unfortunately it needed opening because the flywheel plates were loose - you may be lucky and not need to. fingers-crossed

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Blue Heeler
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September 20, 2018 - 11:07 am
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Wow,a real working bike dragged out of history,look forward to following your progress.

Little brass wire brush rub followed by an oily rag going over where necessary.

Vinyl repair patches stuck under any seat tears,then glued.

Map bag,clean/lube zip carefully with old toothbrush before operating.Maybe some leather/vinyl feed on bag after a wipe clean.

New inner tubes and rim tape possibly required?

Grease gun on all the nipples after cleaning with brass brush/rag

....that sort of thing ,is my approach.

Engine looks like it was assembled and installed by competent mechanic,no nasty leaks from exhaust etc

Change gearbox oil,checking for any bits in the old oil.

The half-worn brass brush treatment works well on lightly rusted chromed items like handlebars,wheel rims,headlamp rim etc.Used that technique on all my oily rag refurbs over the years.Leaves a light coating of brass while retaining the patina.

How do you mean forks are on back-to-front? Everything looks the same as my D1 apart from what looks like a fork brace on your bike that`s not very far above the front guard.That is puzzling me because it doesn`t appear to allow much front fork travel!

Good luck,

Blue

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Urbanghost
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September 20, 2018 - 12:05 pm
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Blue Heeler said

How do you mean forks are on back-to-front? Everything looks the same as my D1 apart from what looks like a fork brace on your bike that`s not very far above the front guard.That is puzzling me because it doesn`t appear to allow much front fork travel

If you look at bottom of forks the brace should be behind the leg not in front and the two mounting lugs should be at the rear like this

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but it is reversed on mine

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Some great tips for when I clean it too, thank you both

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Peterg
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September 20, 2018 - 2:56 pm
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I advise you to contact a national motorcycle museum and get their advice before touching the bike. Unlike all our bikes that is an important piece of motorcycling history

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Urbanghost
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September 20, 2018 - 4:45 pm
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Peterg said
I advise you to contact a national motorcycle museum and get their advice before touching the bike. Unlike all our bikes that is an important piece of motorcycling history  

To be honest I am too scared to touch the bike at the moment with everything I have been told so far.  It is in my cellar and it is staying there until I decide what to do.  I have emailed the national motorcycle museum for some advice and i will see what they say.  I ony wanted a bike to restore, now I end up the guardian of a piece of history, just my luck.  hahhaunsure

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swalsh58
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September 20, 2018 - 4:50 pm
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If it were mine, I would give it a general clean and service it, then see what it needs to get it running. I would do the minimum to it in terms of restoration, but do whatever it needs to get it running. That would maintain the originality. Also you need to remember its YOUR bike, you can do exactly as you please with it. Listen to advice, but make your own decision. 

Current bikes......1958 D5, and a 77 Suzuki GT250 being rebuilt. I have a 74 Kawasaki KH400 in the queue, along with a 58 Tiger Cub and a 1980 Honda CB400N. A 1978 Honda CB125S on the road and  I currently ride a 2011 Harley Davidson 883 Sportster

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Blue Heeler
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September 20, 2018 - 7:45 pm
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Urbanghost said

To be honest I am too scared to touch the bike at the moment with everything I have been told so far.  It is in my cellar and it is staying there until I decide what to do.  I have emailed the national motorcycle museum for some advice and i will see what they say.  I ony wanted a bike to restore, now I end up the guardian of a piece of history, just my luck.  hahhaunsure  

Careful,they`ll slap a Grade II Listing on it like my cottage! 😉

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Peterg
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September 20, 2018 - 8:24 pm
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Also you need to remember its YOUR bike, you can do exactly as you please with it

We have the same argument in the fountain pen community. In our case there are only so many 60 - 100 year old new original untouched pens, but a myriad of well used pens that can be written with.

The problem with this Bantam is the white paint dabs which have been added by the scrutineers

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Urbanghost
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September 20, 2018 - 9:17 pm
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Been having a look at the bike in the cellar tonight, to wet to take it out the back.  Looking at the paint marks i noticed that they are not just white but also yellow and a pale green.  All have numbers on them.  Found more on headlight and wheel hubs.  What I thought was an external oil tank is actually a remote chain oiler.  Under the bike there is a full length skid pan protecting the engine.  Don't know if this is a bsa part or home made, but it fits perfectly.

Been looking at the parts catalogue for this year and the engine from what i can see has mostly competition parts, right down to the competition kickstart.  So I am going to assume its a competition engine? Is there any way of telling without stripping the engine if it has the competition gearing? Also has competition Head and lever for release valve on handlebars and competition mudguards front and back.  Back mudguard has drilled nuts with wire holding them so they dont get lost if they come loose, like a modern race scrambler.

On handlebars there is a homemade console holding a speedo and a big hand knob sticking out of the top of the steering stem, maybe for tension? not sure.

The more I look at this bike the more I find, Fitzroy Allen was also an engineer so the parts he made are pretty good.

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Peterg
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September 20, 2018 - 11:28 pm
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We are talking about an ISDT competing bike. This is equivalent to a World Championship bike.

1952 is the year when the official BSA Team won the Maudes Trophy.

Check this out - Number 30

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Unfortunately the results say that he withdrew after the first day, but that doesn't diminish his achievement in getting to the ISDT. Probably the only other 1952 ISDT bike in the country is one of the Maudes Trophy winning BSA twins at the National Motorcycle Museum

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Urbanghost
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September 21, 2018 - 12:05 am
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thats strange as the family has a medal and I have a newspaper clipping from when he donated a trophy to the 1987 ISDE for best british club team and it says that he was exhibiting the bike that he won a gold medal at the 1952 ISDT

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cocorico
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September 21, 2018 - 7:55 am
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Sounds as though it is getting to the stage where any restoration is only going to devalue the historical value of the bike! If it was an ISDT  model I have no doubt that it was built from all the best 'factory bits' available, plus whatever else was thought desirable in those days. Perhaps you should just keep it warm and dry until you have found out as much as possible about it's history? Keep on posting pictures of the bike and all the individual parts - someone on here may be able to identify them. Don't forget that this is an open forum, so visible to the whole www. There may be an ISDT expert out there who will spot it and let us all know.

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Peterg
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September 21, 2018 - 10:38 am
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35 years later he might have 'won' a gold medal, but on the results page he had no penalties on the first day, A (withdrew?) on the second and dashes on the following days. A (withdrew?) in the Summe column and no Preis.

Out of the 23 riders on that page only 9 completed the week, with 2 golds, 2 silvers and 4 bronzes being awarded. M G Shepard (24), also on a Bantam, racked up 139 penalties and didn't get an award. They appear to have been the only Bantams that competed that year.

E W Smith (22), on a 122cc Francis Barnett, was the only other GB contestant in that class. He managed no penalties on the first two days but withdrew on the third.

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johnsullivan
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September 21, 2018 - 10:56 am
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Perhaps the Club should have a whipround to buy the bike to conserve it thus funding a replacement for you..This has been done in the car world .The little time capsule could then be placed on loan to thr NMM or we can all come round your house have a butchers and eat your biscuts.

67 D10. and a D7    2007 Honda Hornet FA. Suzuki 89  DR 250S, Sinnis SC 125. 78 Honda 90  75 Montesa Cota 247

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Urbanghost
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September 21, 2018 - 12:09 pm
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cocorico said
Perhaps you should just keep it warm and dry until you have found out as much as possible about it's history?

Bike is now sitting in my nice warm cellar and it will stay there until I decide what to do.

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Blue Heeler
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September 21, 2018 - 12:21 pm
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Thanks for the pics,be great to see more detail when you have time.Useful for anyone thinking of building a "replica"

Should fetch a tidy sum at Bonhams(Stafford spring sale?) etc,after advertising it`s ISDT entry pedigree.....if you chose that avenue

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Urbanghost
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September 21, 2018 - 1:24 pm
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johnsullivan said
The little time capsule could then be placed on loan to thr NMM or we can all come round your house have a butchers and eat your biscuts.  

If anyone is interested in having a look at the bike let me know and we could possibly arrange something. 

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Blue Heeler
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September 21, 2018 - 4:32 pm
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Not currently a Club Member,but wouldn`t it make a great article for the Bantam Mag!

Clearly a lot of hard work and clever thought gone into preparing her.

Referring back to question re checking gearbox ratios,assuming the crank`s primary drive sprocket is standard,with the spark plug out after an air blast to top of head to remove crud,and gen cover removed,you could note turns of flywheel to gearbox spocket turns in all three gears and compare to standard D1.

Blue

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Urbanghost
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September 21, 2018 - 5:39 pm
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I have some new photos of various bits for you all to see.

Quick release hand nuts on both wheels, with spare spokes for wheels taped to mudguards

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Competition kickstart

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Remote chain oiler

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Competition head

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Skid plate

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Wired nuts

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Smiths speedo and console

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