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Reproduction back mudguard D1
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Mistgreen53
Rotherham S. Yorks
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May 10, 2018 - 1:46 pm
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HI. Has anyone bought a reproduction rear mudguard (i think Indian origin) I have done some measurements  and I think that the radius over the width of the arch (if thats the correct way of putting it!!)has been taken from the front mudguard which by comparison is deeper than the rear. It seems to be about 1" too long on the radius (seam to seam taken from an original rear guard) making it approximately 1/2"" too deep. The side sections appear to be reasonably accurate, but the setback for the chain guard is hopelessly out of line. The tube passing through (chassis fixing) is overall 1/4" too short and hopelessly out of line by about 9-10 degrees. I may have no choice but to put it down to a very expensive mistake/error unless I can get my money back. Theres more chance of hell freezing over!!! Would not recommend buying anything from India off fleabay (although mine wasn't)

The moral seems to be: once bitten----twice--stupid

Graham

 D1 '59 on the road.  D1 '55 undergoing restoration. D1 '53 on the back-burner.

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Hans Kreuzen
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May 10, 2018 - 9:25 pm
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I am just about to paint a original plunger rear guard replacement, for a customer that tried to fit the Indian new guard, after lots of work he made it fit and I painted it, only to find that the chain hits and chain guard has to be cut, on and on.

THEY ARE TO WIDE, WRONG ARCH etc. and not to mention expensive.

The Indian ones send to AU don't fit, with only a few mm clearance between the tool  box and chain guard and carry rack, if one measure is out, nothing fits.

This is just my customers experience, he just bought a original guard plus the rack on eBay for $450.- AU

Hans

1950 D1 plunger for daily use, Concourse 1948 D1 rigid, Black 1953 D1 plunger nearly done and a 1949 rigid D1 survivor.

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chickensoup
Bolton, Greater Manchester
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May 14, 2018 - 9:56 pm
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Hi all,

I was given one of the offending Indian rear guards, and also found it to be useless. The guy who gave it to me was building a GPO D1. Being a sheet metal worker, I thought I might be able to tweek it back into shape, but the dimensions of the mudguard were completely wrong.

I ended up buying a cheap rotten one, used it as a template, and fabricated a new one from scratch. I have since changed jobs and don't have the facilities now, to make any more mudguards.

I offered the Indian Mudguard as a freebie in the swaps and give away pages. I had no takers. I threw it on the scrap pile at our local tip last week.

Nick[Permission to view this image is denied]

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                           Kind regards,  Nick     Bolton, Greater Manchester

                              1950 D1 Plunger Frame with 1958 D5 Engine,

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Mistgreen53
Rotherham S. Yorks
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May 14, 2018 - 10:36 pm
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Hi Nick. Following your photo of the Indian guard I took a shot with a 19'rim. The resulting shot seems to be a closer "fit" than the one you got. Now in two minds wether or not to go ahead and use it!!

Graham[Permission to view this image is denied]

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 D1 '59 on the road.  D1 '55 undergoing restoration. D1 '53 on the back-burner.

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GlenAnderson
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May 15, 2018 - 12:16 am
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If it’s any consolation, I bought a replica early (2-screw) D1 toolbox last year, with the intention of modifying it into a battery box for my D1, because I didn’t want to cut the original, and because the 2-screw version has a bigger opening to get a battery into. However, this thing is so poorly made and finished I took it out of the box, looked at it and put it straight back. It’s not even remotely the right shape, the securing fixings to hold the lid on are all wrong, and no amount of filler or paint would disguise its hand made crudity. I threw better stuff on the scrap when I was an apprentice. Sending it back would have cost more than the refund, so I left some scathing feedback and have written it off as experience. It’s so poor I couldn’t even bring myself to try and sell it on again on eBay. 

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Maddog Leary
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May 15, 2018 - 8:46 am
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Look at the customer reviews on the selling/buying website you are looking to purchase it from.  These reviews tend to be a bit more 'honest' as most scrupulous selling sites do not wish to be associated with second rate products with one obvious exception that I won't name here.  There is a mob in India that does do great reproductions (name escapes me at moment) and I have several associates who were more than happy with the product purchased.  Will try to find the link.

as always - buyer beware.

Cheers

MD cheers

Maddog - 56 Swingarm D3 Major -  Major Works in progress! Machine is fighting against me every which way!

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Pwta
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May 15, 2018 - 9:07 am
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Hans Kreuzen said
I am just about to paint a original plunger rear guard replacement, for a customer that tried to fit the Indian new guard, after lots of work he made it fit and I painted it, only to find that the chain hits and chain guard has to be cut, on and on.

THEY ARE TO WIDE, WRONG ARCH etc. and not to mention expensive.

The Indian ones send to AU don't fit, with only a few mm clearance between the tool  box and chain guard and carry rack, if one measure is out, nothing fits.

This is just my customers experience, he just bought a original guard plus the rack on eBay for $450.- AU

Hans  

Yep, I am the one that Hans refers to. I tried to get and original guard for ages. Not an easy find. Decided to take a chance on an Indian made one. Even went to the trouble of liaising with the supplier to make sure the guard matched my spec on my original guard. Received the guard, Not even close. It was 18mm wider and 10 mm higher. The profile was pretty close, The  rear stays fitted fine. But after much modding, I thought I had it right. It went off to the paint shop. Found it didn't fit together so well. So glad I found an original rear guard. Will be off to Hans soon for painting. 

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Hans Kreuzen
Queensland Australia
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May 15, 2018 - 9:21 am
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Maddog Leary said
Look at the customer reviews on the selling/buying website you are looking to purchase it from.  These reviews tend to be a bit more 'honest' as most scrupulous selling sites do not wish to be associated with second rate products with one obvious exception that I won't name here.  There is a mob in India that does do great reproductions (name escapes me at moment) and I have several associates who were more than happy with the product purchased.  Will try to find the link.

as always - buyer beware.

Cheers

MD cheers  

Hi Rob, It is still a hit and miss as for fitting correctly, and on top of that, they are not cheap at all.ranting
 

1950 D1 plunger for daily use, Concourse 1948 D1 rigid, Black 1953 D1 plunger nearly done and a 1949 rigid D1 survivor.

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Mistgreen53
Rotherham S. Yorks
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May 15, 2018 - 9:39 am
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Hi. Just been out and fitted the offending guard to my '53. Chain guard clear, rack sits right, rear stay is 20mm too long, widthwise ??, would need the front section looking at to get the radius closer, not sure about the back. Seems to flare away too much. Opinions please. promise I won't be offended!!

Graham[Permission to view this image is denied]

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 D1 '59 on the road.  D1 '55 undergoing restoration. D1 '53 on the back-burner.

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Hans Kreuzen
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May 15, 2018 - 10:00 am
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I think it looks pretty good and I would go with it, It's not like you can buy a cheap original in a hurry.

Paint it and move on I saythumbs-up

1950 D1 plunger for daily use, Concourse 1948 D1 rigid, Black 1953 D1 plunger nearly done and a 1949 rigid D1 survivor.

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Blue Heeler
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May 15, 2018 - 10:02 am
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Looking at dozens of DI Plunger images,they vary a lot,some look like yours,while others the profile of the guard is more concentric to the wheel rim.If it was mine and I could make it fit and look ok,I`d do so to get her on the road and then if it bothered me,keep an eye out for the proper guard.

In the pic,your guard does look too big/fat for the skinny wheel....is it an 18" wheel? Maybe it looks ok in a pic of the complete bike?My Plunger D3 has 19" wheels front and rear.I can`t get to my D1s at the moment,but I thought they were 19" too,but I may be wrong?

I think it was Sunny who previously mentioned the two different sized guards for Plunger D1s/D3s.I have both,the skinnier and fatter.It`s to do with the radius of the top section...all the other measurements are the same.Someone in India needs to get this right....or a clever chap like Chicken Soup in Blighty with an English Wheel and whatever else sheet metalworkers use for making guards.

Blue

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chickensoup
Bolton, Greater Manchester
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May 15, 2018 - 9:35 pm
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Hi Graham, and the gang.

I agree, the mudguard looks pretty close. My mudguard stays would of had to of been about 3 inches longer.

The mudguard stays may be the clue here. Are yours originals. ( true hole centre length dimension required ) I mean if yours are originals, that would make the mudguard more flared at the tail light end, if you bolted it up. It looks very close and I feel you may get away with it, You may have to re- fabricate some shorter stays.

It looks to me ( but I may be wrong ) like the whole mudguard needs to rotate round clockwise, a few degree's. I know this is impossible, as you would have to alter the tube that passes through the guard where the seat springs fasten.

Ive added a few photos of my copy, I also made the chain guard, stays, stay bracket and repaired the rack.

Nick[Permission to view this image is denied]
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                           Kind regards,  Nick     Bolton, Greater Manchester

                              1950 D1 Plunger Frame with 1958 D5 Engine,

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Mistgreen53
Rotherham S. Yorks
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May 16, 2018 - 8:36 am
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HI. Thanks for the input Nick, the stays are pattern but are a match for the originals length wise and hole centres. Rotating the guard clockwise as you say would possibly involve adding to the front bottom ,moving the mounting tube and making alterations to the chain guard set. I have an idea in my head of how to make the flare less obvious but will work that out later. I have now made up my mind to use the rear guard from my '53 although it does require some work (but not half as much!!). If and when I chop and change the pattern guard, it will eventually go on the '53. By the way, love the colour of your bike, that is also the colour mine will be finished in albeit with stainless rims.

cheers.

Graham.

 D1 '59 on the road.  D1 '55 undergoing restoration. D1 '53 on the back-burner.

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Mags 1
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May 16, 2018 - 8:23 pm
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Seems to me that there must be more than one company in India making the things, one Ok, rest not so good. Someone gave good advice to read the Bantam feedbacks on there sites before bidding.

Also problems with different dimensions, even from BSA and different sized wheels used too, maybe someone knows when the 18 inch wheels were used on the D1 Bantams (if ever)? 

Never, I thought myself.

Four now on the road and at least several in bits.

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Mistgreen53
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May 16, 2018 - 9:27 pm
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Mags 1 said
Seems to me that there must be more than one company in India making the things, one Ok, rest not so good. Someone gave good advice to read the Bantam feedbacks on there sites before bidding.

Also problems with different dimensions, even from BSA and different sized wheels used too, maybe someone knows when the 18 inch wheels were used on the D1 Bantams (if ever)? 

Never, I thought myself.  

                   

Hi, Just to clarify, both the wheels in the pics are 19"  The silver painted one had the rear hub used for my restoration,the mist green is on my 53 D1.

Graham

 D1 '59 on the road.  D1 '55 undergoing restoration. D1 '53 on the back-burner.

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Mistgreen53
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May 23, 2018 - 12:55 pm
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chickensoup said

It looks to me ( but I may be wrong ) like the whole mudguard needs to rotate round clockwise, a few degree's. I know this is impossible, as you would have to alter the tube that passes through the guard where the seat springs fasten.

Hi. After a lot of measuring and head scratching, I took the bull by the horns today. Looking at what  CS said I took it on board. Cut the tube out of a scrap rear guard and set about putting it on the offending replacement. The "new" tube was set 1 1/2 inches anticlockwise. The result? see photos.

1. shown from the side the stays are OK.length-wise, rack sits as it should, flare does not look out-of-place (my opinion)

[Permission to view this image is denied]

[Permission to view this image is denied]

2.From top shows the pos. of the replaced tube, old one to be taken out.

[Permission to view this image is denied]

3. Chain guard/wheel  clearance is better than original

[Permission to view this image is denied]

A BIG thanks Nick.

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 D1 '59 on the road.  D1 '55 undergoing restoration. D1 '53 on the back-burner.

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